Speed Vs. tricks: food for thought

[BlastHappyNinja]

Well hai there! This past Saturday, I was at a huge tourney called Rebirth (we had nearly 200 people show up to this event. Michigan generally has a lot of people attend their Smash events already, but oh man! This was more than a lot!) As some of you may or may not have heard, ZeRo was the guest of honor here. I even got to fight him in a few friendlies and took a stock off of his Diddy and got him up to 70-something on his last stock. But that's beside the point.

As I was watching ZeRo play with Sheik, I was studying how he used her, what commands and how precisely he used them. And something dawned on me. ZeRo didn't use a lot of tricks that I've seen most Sheik players use. He was very textbook Fair and Bfish nonstop. Mostly Fair. Not much use of Nair, which is an amazing move. But, what he was doing was working, and was working very efficiently. And here's why I think it worked.

Speed. The speed of his inputs is crazy fast. Speed and precision of positioning led to a lot of Fair hits and a lot of kills. It wasn't really Sheik techniques at all, but the sheer speed of his inputs combined with Fair being an amazing move gave him a HUGE advantage over most of the competition.

Now here's my question to all of my fellow ninja mains: Which do you think is more important in gameplay as a Sheik main yourself? The speed of your inputs with a single efficient move, or the whole plethora of tricks and moves that Sheik has up her sleeve? Personally, I think that both are important. If we as players could eventually work on speeding up our inputs, I feel like we would be a lot more lethal than we already are. Drop your opinion in the comments!

 

[WondrousMoose]

I'd say that neither is necessarily "better". Of the two, speed and precision are probably more important on a basic level, as you can be plenty showy without getting any real results, but if you're executing simple decisions in just the right way, you'll go far. Of course, a combination of the two would be the strongest. Fair and Bouncing Fish are incredibly versatile moves and will be sufficient in most situations.

ZeRo's personal style isn't a very flashy one, no matter who he's using, and his Sheik is the same. If someone with a flashier style can come along with similarly strong fundamentals, I think ZeRo will have a hard time.

So basically, of the two, being fast and precise without technical variation is probably more effective than being flashy with poor fundamentals.

 

[BlastHappyNinja]

I'd say that neither is necessarily "better". Of the two, speed and precision are probably more important on a basic level, as you can be plenty showy without getting any real results, but if you're executing simple decisions in just the right way, you'll go far. Of course, a combination of the two would be the strongest. Fair and Bouncing Fish are incredibly versatile moves and will be sufficient in most situations.

ZeRo's personal style isn't a very flashy one, no matter who he's using, and his Sheik is the same. If someone with a flashier style can come along with similarly strong fundamentals, I think ZeRo will have a hard time.

So basically, of the two, being fast and precise without technical variation is probably more effective than being flashy with poor fundamentals.

The speed and precision definitely showed to be strong. I find it fascinating how playstyles can vary so much. ZeRo's technique, while simple, was very effective. While most people complain that it's not flashy enough, it still worked. So there's definitely truth to being efficient overall with what you do.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

By definition, technical skill would actually include how precise/fast your inputs are as well as other aspects like spacing, fast falling, etc. Basically how good you are at technically performing aspects of the game.

So I think your comparison would be more of Technical Skill vs Tricks.

And with Sheik, the answer is most definitely technical skill. Her quick movement makes it so that you gain a lot out of just performing optimally and her handful of moves are just super good.

 

[BlastHappyNinja]

By definition, technical skill would actually include how precise/fast your inputs are as well as other aspects like spacing, fast falling, etc. Basically how good you are at technically performing aspects of the game.

So I think your comparison would be more of Technical Skill vs Tricks.

And with Sheik, the answer is most definitely technical skill. Her quick movement makes it so that you gain a lot out of just performing optimally and her handful of moves are just super good.

You DO have a point there! I should really change the title of this thread, lol.

 

[_Tree]

(I kinda view the OP as Fundamentals Vs Tech)

This is a bit of an odd case as it specifically involves ZeRo. ZeRo has been playing Smash for a while, and as stated earlier, he has come to be defined by his defensive and safe play. You'll never see him pulling off risky but flashy tech, as he believes playing 'lame' (for lack of a better word) is the most straightforward path to victory. People may not like watching it, but you have to respect his goals.
However because of this tendency of his, his fundamentals are so strong that he can not only get by, but also dominate the competition with them. ZeRo is probably the major piece of proof that I'd use to back-up the argument that, on a whole, fundamentals are more important than specific tech.

The way I see it, refining fundamentals is like crushing a coal to a rough diamond. Sure, it might not be as shiny as other gemstones in it's uncut state, but it's still a diamond, and still the intrinsic base for something greater. Incorporating tech is the natural continuation of that. The cutting of the stone, the polishing of oneself. Optimization.
So what do you get when you try to cut some coal? Two lumps of coal. That's my general stance on the matter.

This brings up another thought though. Apologies for the parallels with generic shounen manga, but imagine that most players incorporate both a myriad of fundamentals and tech, branching between the two to cover different shortcomings, but together making them a whole competitor. They've 'broken the limiter' so to speak, and reached their true potential (at least for the time being).
ZeRo, on the other hand, is that one kid that decides "I'm gonna get good without breaking my limiter". He trains much harder (even saying that he trained eight hours a day during the weeks leading up to Apex), practicing just fundamentals with a dash of tech on the side. Look at how far those fundamentals have gotten him.

I would call Mr.R the best Sheik. He knows all the fidget tech and can pull off Needles > Bouncing Fish in his sleep.
ZeRo is, however, the best player, despite rarely utilising said tech. He's just so solid on a base level that he doesn't need any of that fancy nonsense. Don't play an ace if a king will do.

So what happens when ZeRo does decide to break his limiter, and incorporate every piece of tech?

(Maybe I'm just reading too far into it lol).

 

[BlastHappyNinja]

(I kinda view the OP as Fundamentals Vs Tech)

This is a bit of an odd case as it specifically involves ZeRo. ZeRo has been playing Smash for a while, and as stated earlier, he has come to be defined by his defensive and safe play. You'll never see him pulling off risky but flashy tech, as he believes playing 'lame' (for lack of a better word) is the most straightforward path to victory. People may not like watching it, but you have to respect his goals.
However because of this tendency of his, his fundamentals are so strong that he can not only get by, but also dominate the competition with them. ZeRo is probably the major piece of proof that I'd use to back-up the argument that, on a whole, fundamentals are more important than specific tech.

The way I see it, refining fundamentals is like crushing a coal to a rough diamond. Sure, it might not be as shiny as other gemstones in it's uncut state, but it's still a diamond, and still the intrinsic base for something greater. Incorporating tech is the natural continuation of that. The cutting of the stone, the polishing of oneself. Optimization.
So what do you get when you try to cut some coal? Two lumps of coal. That's my general stance on the matter.

This brings up another thought though. Apologies for the parallels with generic shounen manga, but imagine that most players incorporate both a myriad of fundamentals and tech, branching between the two to cover different shortcomings, but together making them a whole competitor. They've 'broken the limiter' so to speak, and reached their true potential (at least for the time being).
ZeRo, on the other hand, is that one kid that decides "I'm gonna get good without breaking my limiter". He trains much harder (even saying that he trained eight hours a day during the weeks leading up to Apex), practicing just fundamentals with a dash of tech on the side. Look at how far those fundamentals have gotten him.

I would call Mr.R the best Sheik. He knows all the fidget tech and can pull off Needles > Bouncing Fish in his sleep.
ZeRo is, however, the best player, despite rarely utilising said tech. He's just so solid on a base level that he doesn't need any of that fancy nonsense. Don't play an ace if a king will do.

So what happens when ZeRo does decide to break his limiter, and incorporate every piece of tech?

(Maybe I'm just reading too far into it lol).

It would be interesting to see that happen. It makes me wonder if it would cut down on how efficient he plays, though. Changing the formula could have both good and bad effects. In all honesty, I do think that fundamentals make the strongest player, but tech is good to have on the side JUST in case. A slight mix of both can be good, but overall fundamentals are clearly the strongest (ZeRo has proven this time and again with the speed and efficiency of his playstyle, like you said the man trains nonstop and has refined himself and his fundamentals to an extremely efficient point.) Mr. R IS fun to watch, I'm always up for Sheik shenanigans. But ZeRo beat him. He's just so fast and efficient with what he does.

As for what the crowd thinks is and isn't the way the character "should be played" as someone once stated, everyone likes flashy. It's what draws in crowds. It's what makes advertising for smash events and whatnot attractive. Showing off exciting and crazy gameplay. It gets them hyped and makes them go SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! It's just not how ZeRo plays. I personally don't have a qualm with it, I'm a very defensive and unorthodox player myself. My buddy Ori once called me one of the most defensive and campy Sheiks in our scene, lol. I think that defensive is good, but it won't necessarily draw a crowd, y'know?