Specifically, the Ness Matchup

[ccthirteen]

Out of all the entire roster, the only character I really have trouble playing against is a good Ness.

I find myself in fair combos all the time. He reflects the Gordos back at such a speed that I have trouble reacting in time to send them back again. Also, my approach game needs some work against him. It's almost embarrassing how I get rocked by a good Ness.

I know there's a way we can figure out to best the smug little Psychic in a 1v1 smash showdown, so brainstorm! Tell of your experiences fighting against what I currently consider to be the hardest match up.

 

[Nick Fury]

I really wish I can shed some light on this as I have the same problems at some points, I have a friend that mains Ness, and I will try to get as much mu experience so I can to shed some light on this issue, but currently i have no idea. Info will be on the way soon.

 

[ccthirteen]

I've got faith in my fellow KD3's. The same situation is the only reason I've developed strategies to deal with Link. My sparring partner mains him.

 

[Jabejazz]

Played the MU for quite a while, it's a really annoying one.

Key point is don't get grabbed; grabs leads to enormous damage with DThrow > Fairx1000, or kills with BThrow at stupidly low percent on the edge. Ness will fish for that grab with every tool possible, often PK Fire. PK Fires can be punished with Inhale/Dash Grab if you jump over them on reaction.

Mid range is the ideal distance; too far he can freely spam PK Thunder, too close his superior CQC in jab/OoS nair beats pretty much everything. At mid range you can poke with aerials/FTilt and react to what he's doing. Careful about using gordos, Ness FSmashing it can leads to catastrophic results. Still a great tool to use in midrange for some breathing room.

Learn to beat his recovery, PKT2 is super scary, but it's definitely beatable, although you have very little room to error.
When people learn to deal with his (still really good even if exploitable) recovery, I believe this matchup will feel much more smoother.

 

[Powda]

I'm no expert but vs Ness I play the opposite I play against every other character. Against Ness I don't leave the ground. I know that sounds nuts but I've found Ness to have a weak ground game and laggy frames with pk fire and thunder. I roll around dsmashing and grabbing. Also I always chase him off the edge, catch his thunder and watch him fall to his death.

 

[FimPhym]

Just a small thing that people might not be aware of, if ness tries to juggle you with PK thunder you can fast fall nair through it. Not sure if you need the initial hitbox to destroy it or not, but it's a nice way to get through. This also works on stuff like G&W chef.

Another thing I had to learn in this match up was slightly new air dodge punishes. I found some ness players like to air dodge immediately as they double jump while recovering which gives them an unusual movement for an air dodge. Should be possible to bait it and land an up air or what have you, but it's another oddity to keep in mind.

 

[dean.]

Just a small thing that people might not be aware of, if ness tries to juggle you with PK thunder you can fast fall nair through it.

This does not work for the tail of the move I believe. Many Ness players will try to angle it so that you only hit the tail of the move (and if they hit with this, hit confirm into the head of the move).

 

[shoe]

When Ness PK-thunders you at long range you can up-B from the ground over/through it right onto Ness doing his psychic lag stuff. Situational but you can catch them off guard with it.

 

[Meek Moths]

I'm no expert but vs Ness I play the opposite I play against every other character. Against Ness I don't leave the ground. I know that sounds nuts but I've found Ness to have a weak ground game and laggy frames with pk fire and thunder. I roll around dsmashing and grabbing. Also I always chase him off the edge, catch his thunder and watch him fall to his death.

are you saying you are one of those player who just keeps using rolls? shame on you, those are worst

 

[Powda]

are you saying you are one of those player who just keeps using rolls? shame on you, those are worst

Against Homo projectile spammers like Ness? You better believe it.

 

[Meek Moths]

Against Homo projectile spammers like Ness? You better believe it.

no excuse, besides, Dedede is mostly spamming gordos as well

 

[Genghis_Connor]

no excuse, besides, Dedede is mostly spamming gordos as well

God, no. Gordos =/= spammable projectiles. They're long-range punish tools more than anything.

 

[Meek Moths]

seems like someone's in The Nile

 

[Genghis_Connor]

seems like someone's in The Nile

Looks like someone has no idea how to play this character.

 

[Meek Moths]

says who ?

 

[Jabejazz]

If you plan to keep insulting each other, I suggest you do so in PMs, so you don't pollute an otherwise potentially useful thread.

I'll add that spamming Gordos is generally a bad idea in most matchups, even moreso against Ness, as a batted Gordo can potentially insta-KO. There's a time and place for Gordos against Ness, especially off-stage, where his fairly exploitable recovery can be abused by our edge guarding game.

 

[Meek Moths]

I just got an idea someone has to test. ness can be gimped in very lulzy ways, like when another ness absorps his PK thunder or orbitars blocking etc. and dedede can eat projectiles with inhale (i think). wo how about swallowing his thunder when he tried to recover? its worth trying

 

[ccthirteen]

I wouldn't recommend it. The act of swallowing a projectile takes so much time that doing it at or below the edge of the stage in the air would probably kill you while you're stuck in the animation.

Better to float out and let yourself be hit by the thunder ball before it gets to Ness. That's the easiest way to gimp his recovery. Also, I don't think a Gordo would stop the PKT since it is supposed to continue through everything but characters now, right?