Sonic's Kill Moves

[Dragonbreath]

I'm a tad confused here. I distinctly remember a few different Eforallers saying that Sonic's only good kill move is his Fsmash and Bair. (And final smash, obviously.) But in more than a few Sonic videos, I've seen him getting some serious distance with his Down Smash, utilt and Dair. I can't remember the exact videos, but I think they were all in that new thread Gimpy opened up.

So, my question is this. Did they give Sonic more oomph since eforall? Or am I just imagining things?

 

[ShadowLink84]

They gave him a little more knockback to his attacks but in e for all videos you can see his Dair has killing potential.

 

[Dustero]

Does his Dair spike?

 

[Mushroomring]

Gimpy said it did at E for All but I dont know if it still does.

 

[Dragonbreath]

The ones I'm really interested in are his up and down smash. If his Dsmash has as much knockback as his fsmash, in specific.

Point being, I want to use the windup punch as little as possible. It...annoys me.

But yeah, does the dair spike?

 

[Mushroomring]

I haven't seen the dair in action as a spike, not even in E for All vids. IMO, Sonic's best kill moves are bair and fsmash

 

[bugball]

also, his combo-fair, but in other certain mode, i will upload some videos soon, i just recorded it with my cam don't worry




Whit fair, you can easily do a fair to the enemy and drop him off the terrain, you have to run,jump and do another fair, and do a second jump for another fair, he is dead and youre safe with your greatest B, kill in 75% percenr

maybe this seems difficult, but i don't know why, it's very easy to do, kill in 85% cases

 

[GoodMornEvery1]

He has so many kill moves! super sonic can kill 3 people twice in a row, his dash is powerful, his air attacks are too. his smash attacks all kill. his down air is a non-flaming falcon kick. his regular b is really strong, and hones in on the closest enemy.

And to the person above me, sorry, but mewtwo isnt in it. not at all. Lucario replaced him. pretty similar actually.

 

[spartan334]

^ lol at joke post!

 

[CT Chia]

dsmash barely has killing potential, but its stil la good move. his fsmash has tons of knockback and probably his best killing move. i cant really see his dair getting a lot of kills unless the opponent is at like 170% or higher. His usmash doesn't really kill, but its a great move that does good damage and has high priority. overall though, sonics moves have decent knockback so its not like hes left with nothing like mario in melee (except with a sweetspotted fsmash), and he combos well for edgeuarding.

 

[Turbo Ether]

dsmash barely has killing potential.

lolwut. You're joking right?

 

[Mushroomring]

ChiboSempai actually played the game and Sonic at a tourney, Im pretty sure he knows what he's saying

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

I played Sonic a few hours ago.

It's tough actually landing blows but a few are surprising in how they hurt (fair, dair, the down smash) his up smash can't kill anything from what I played, but the f smash and down smash can get the job done. I find his homing attack surprisingly effective in starting up another hit or two, but I never managed to kill with it.

 

[Hokkaido]

I've played sonic several times (I like using him occasionally). I can say that as DEFINITE killers, the back aerial seems to be the most solid choice. At higher percentages I've had some good luck dealing great knockback on his tilts, and I'd say that the dsmash is pretty nice too. On the other hand, I haven't had much luck landing his fsmash since it's almost always been dodged/blocked/out-prioritized by my opponents, and when it does land they're at pretty low damage.

I WOULD love to try the forward aerial kill combo though, it seems very nice...

And all that being said, I think my biggest gripe about Sonic is the fact that his attacks seem to have no priority compared to that of other characters... but then again, all my friends like using swords, projectiles and Super Armor-based characters so he can't do too much :/

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

There was one time where I homing attacked a R.O.B player to death, earning me the victory. But both of us were really high up. I do remember smacking him twice in succession.

 

[Mushroomring]

Lucky killed Gimpy's Bowser with u-air at 95% (pretty high up though)


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8N5LwAGsv7s&feature=related#

its at the end

 

[StealthFighterX]

Yea that u air is quite nice with added up b for more height..ive seen that before in another vid it was even nicer.

 

[SonicMario]

Lucky killed Gimpy's Bowser with u-air at 95% (pretty high up though)


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8N5LwAGsv7s&feature=related#

its at the end

Especially since that's Bowser your talking about.... and Gimpy...

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

sonic has VERY few kill moves

-Bair
-FSmash
-DSmash
-Back Throw


occasionally his other aerials and his tilts will kill, but that happens at really high damage and/or on really small stages

 

[Enigmatic Ty]

I can understand what you mean. He may not be a strong character but I see him as a defensive one. He`s made it get multiple attacks in and dodge the enemy`s attacks.

 

[Kokichi]

lol @ "Sonic" and "Kill Moves" in the same sentence. He'd be good if he had more than one strong kill move, which is really just his bair. His up-smash can be DIed out of, his Fsmash is decent but is easy to dodge and takes long to start up, his Dsmash is good I guess but I don't really think of it as killing people, sex kick sucks, fair is good for racking up damage, dair can kill but only at really high percents, uair can hit them up but rarely kills, and his tilts are all decent (but worse when compared to other character's tilts), and his B moves all seem too similar to be of any real help.

I was really hoping Sonic would be a good fighter, but I feel like he's going to struggle to be any good. He just can't kill people, and that sucks. His back-throw sends the enemy pretty far behind him, but I don't think walk-off walls will be allowed, and there's no real edge-guarding in this game.

Also, to make things worse, he can't even RAR because he runs too fast, so you can't jump and do his back kick like Toon Link or other characters can

 

[Silent Wolf]

<--- Aftermath

I found that you COULD run and do his bair, and that's how I ended up getting a lot of the kills that I did. But yeah, other than that there wasn't anything that was a good KO move, as I would try to fsmash, but was repeatedly hit out of it by an opponent starting their fsmash later. Utilt seemed promising at first, but the second hit can be DI'd to make it go almost completely horizontal. Edgeguarding is in the game, but you have to be really aggressive, so maybe Sonic will fare better there, as I never made the switch from melee edgeguarding to Brawl. But yeah, a few times I'd be getting combo'd, dair the opponent to get out of it, and if they were at a high percent and went off the stage, I'd run and do the RAR on them and get a good kill. Videos of me will be up soon, but I sucked, so don't expect much.

 

[CT Chia]

<--- Aftermath

I found that you COULD run and do his bair, and that's how I ended up getting a lot of the kills that I did. But yeah, other than that there wasn't anything that was a good KO move, as I would try to fsmash, but was repeatedly hit out of it by an opponent starting their fsmash later. Utilt seemed promising at first, but the second hit can be DI'd to make it go almost completely horizontal. Edgeguarding is in the game, but you have to be really aggressive, so maybe Sonic will fare better there, as I never made the switch from melee edgeguarding to Brawl. But yeah, a few times I'd be getting combo'd, dair the opponent to get out of it, and if they were at a high percent and went off the stage, I'd run and do the RAR on them and get a good kill. Videos of me will be up soon, but I sucked, so don't expect much.

what do you mean RAR? Like running at them but quickly turning around to bair them?

 

[shrinkray21]

Sonic's kill moves ARE few and far between but purposely done. He's a fast juggling character, I don't think the dair spikes, from what I've seen, the hit is upward at the very least. So far the best killer is the bair, but he has the opportunity to chase people far off of the level because of that incredible recovery.

 

[Dragonbreath]

@Kokichi

Think you could generalize the edgegaurding situation in respect to Sonic? Most videos I see show Sonic getting his kills with midair combat off the edge. With that in mind, Sonic's edgegaurd moves could become his kills. (Thoughts on the Bugball Fair kill here., at :22.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Nobody chasing foes off the screen like Sonic should confirmed.

 

[JayBee]

sonic has VERY few kill moves

-Bair
-FSmash
-DSmash
-Back Throw


occasionally his other aerials and his tilts will kill, but that happens at really high damage and/or on really small stages

First off, that's a decent amount of kill moves. second, I've seen some nice knockback with the Fair , and his homing attack. and his Dair is jesus when used in conjunction with the Spring Jump. )Since the Spring can act as an attack, you can quickly follow it with a Dair to keep up pressure, but maybe that's off topic). Im watching Sonic vs Marth matches and Sonic when played right isn't getting hit as much. He has more priority than people are giving him credit for. I also like his
edgegaurd game alot.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L8_JAHceTW0&feature=related

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

First off, that's a decent amount of kill moves. second, I've seen some nice knockback with the Fair , and his homing attack. and his Dair is jesus when used in conjunction with the Spring Jump. )Since the Spring can act as an attack, you can quickly follow it with a Dair to keep up pressure, but maybe that's off topic). Im watching Sonic vs Marth matches and Sonic when played right isn't getting hit as much. He has more priority than people are giving him credit for. I also like his
edgegaurd game alot.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L8_JAHceTW0&feature=related

-backthrow only kills on stages with walkoff edges or at high damages.
-downtilt only hits ungurading enemies on the ground AND has terrible startup-lag, cool-down lag and priority.
-Fsmash is slow and normally easily avoided.
-bair is pretty solid... not amazing, but it's about all sonic's reliably got

- Dair has slightly over average knockback and is easily punishable. Only jesus against an oponent at a lower skill level.
- Fair only has good knockback at the end of the attack, and can be DId in practically ANY direction except down. besides, you'll be using this move primarily to rack up damage... you'll only kill with it at high damages or near a screen edge

-some other moves can kill (nair, Utilt, homing attack) but pretty much only at VERY high damages and/or when they have NO move decay to that point.

-his edgeguaring game is pretty good, as is his pressuring ability, but it's not enough to make up for his poor priority for all of his kill moves and his general lack of strength.




-so, in recap: sonic has only two real kill moves:
#1 - Bair
#2 - Fsmash

for those of you who say to include his downsmash, consider his Fsmash as counting as maybe 80% a kill move and his Dsmash as the remaining 20... really, once you play against decent players, you'll see how much trouble he has killing

 

[timidshadow]

Sonic has alot of combo potential so racking up damage shouldn't be too hard and so that's how he can kill.

 

[Hokkaido]

Yes, priority pretty much changes everything for him. Against players who are good with disjointed hitbox characters (such as Marth/Ike/Link/Zamus) and even with characters that have longer reach or have stronger attacks (such as Ganondorf/Wolf), Sonic's moves don't tend to land when attacks clash...

And that's all worsened by the fact that he's a light character, since getting your attack out-prioritized against a Ganon, let's say, would kill you at medium damage (while such characters like him die at much higher percentages)... and the fact that Sonic's moves don't tend to do a lot of damage doesn't help any of all of that, either.

Right now I see great potential in his forward/down-b to back aerial combos to establish the occasional surprising kill shot however, but I've yet to get it to work out that way- I've been comboing it into the up-aerial thus far.

 

[Lyoncet]

And that's all worsened by the fact that he's a light character...

Sonic is exactly medium weight. http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143406

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

@ timidshadow: true... sonic can easily combo, but sonic doesn't do much damage even with combos. Some characters can do more damage in one hit than sonic can in 20... his combo powers aren't as powerful as they seem.

Yes, priority pretty much changes everything for him. Against players who are good with disjointed hitbox characters (such as Marth/Ike/Link/Zamus) and even with characters that have longer reach or have stronger attacks (such as Ganondorf/Wolf), Sonic's moves don't tend to land when attacks clash...

And that's all worsened by the fact that he's a light character, since getting your attack out-prioritized against a Ganon, let's say, would kill you at medium damage (while such characters like him die at much higher percentages)... and the fact that Sonic's moves don't tend to do a lot of damage doesn't help any of all of that, either.

Right now I see great potential in his forward/down-b to back aerial combos to establish the occasional surprising kill shot however, but I've yet to get it to work out that way- I've been comboing it into the up-aerial thus far.

U R right.

and about the spindash into an aerial. It works well, but the probblem is, it's easily sheilded, and also easily sheild grabbed. and it still doesn't kill incredibly easily... also... you have to predict which aerial to use, because they can reall end up anywhere in realtion to sonic after being spindashed

 

[Hokkaido]

I guess it's good that he's medium weight, but I still don't think it'll really solve any of his problems... so far, I'm seeing Sonic as mid-tier at best. He seems to be the type of character that we'll have to wait longer to figure out better games for.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

yes... it's possible that some sort of tricks will be found to improve his game, but, as he is now, he's viable for bottom teir.

however, I get the feeling that, if any character has tricks... sonic will.

 

[R4ZE]

god im laughin my ars off @ "zomg i has no kill moves with sonic"

ok well for one thing, sonic is really good at dealing damage fast if you know how, but i dont evenw ant to go into that.


here are his killing moves once and for all
-forward smash (gotta catch em in a lag spot for this one)

-down smash (for you to judge, pretty good attack for speed and unexpected killing but its not a move u can spam to kill people at all either.)

-back air (edit: this one is probly the most reliable, and easiest to pull off because it has decent priority and really good knock back as far as sonic is concerned.)

-UP AIR (this one, no one seems to notice, combined with up b.. its pretty nasty)

the up air can also be used close to the ground... or u can use a wide array of other moves to knock em up a bit, then chase with the up air. the up air has 3 different frames that deal damage and knockback, but when the legs come together is when it has high priority and knock... up? lol

its possible that sonics utilt has good killing potential, i havent gotten a chance to test it much myself due to it being extremely hard to land on skilled oponents.

also. if the damage is really up there (150-200) you can probly kill with chasing fairs, forward tilits, nuetral air, and nuetral b

I've also killed with dair (i've enver seen this move spike but i dont doubt that it can if use right)


*Edit*So lets just say for sure: sonic has about 4 solid killing moves, and a few others that can be used to chase kill at high damage,.... is that not enuff? .. it is for me.*End edit*


But the trick for killing with sonic, is to not even worry about it until you have your opponent to about 150 damage, because its pretty futile until then.

So if you wanna kill with sonic, i suggest learning to rack up damage on them without taking it. I have ways of doing that, but i dont feel like sharing it here... yet.

 

[Dacman]

i agree, sonic isnt about super killin moves, but his edgurading and air game is superb.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

The best Sonic advice I've seen to date is DO NOT TRY TO GAIN POWER KILLS. Even if they are at 180. Just fight normally until an opening appears. Trying to force openings makes you predictable.

Ah predictability. The death warrant for Sonic.

 

[Pubik Vengeance]

dsmash barely has killing potential, but its stil la good move.

The knockback from Dsmash is almost equal to the knockback from Side smash, and it has much more range.

If it came down to Side smash or Dsmash as a killing move and I could only use one I would choose Dsmash probably.

 

[R4ZE]

i think with lucky's moving fsmash trick. fsmash has equal or more range than dsmash... but i still thing dsmash is an amazing killing move...

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

At least on the first forward hit. Sometimes the second. Third = crap