Sonic needs more power

[DJVictor]

sonic was always a combo heavy based character but his moves did not do a ton of damage... you had to to do at least 3 good combo's to over 150% damage. i think he needs more power, don't make him OP but give him a little bit more power.


Let me now what you guys think.

 

[MasterWolf144]

Yes please.

 

[Tepig2000]

I agree. Him being weak is the reason I don't main him, as I find his move set to be good enough.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

Was he that strong in his own games? He barely threw punches in those.

 

[Zekersaurus]

Nnnnnnah. Sonic isn't really meant to be strong. He's meant to be fast. It would kinda go against his character to make him any stronger.

 

[Sobreviviente]

Better air control, maybe? i think he needs more and longer combos.

 

[DJVictor]

Nnnnnnah. Sonic isn't really meant to be strong. He's meant to be fast. It would kinda go against his character to make him any stronger.

Just a little though

 

[DJVictor]

Better air control, maybe? i think he needs more and longer combos.

MORE????

 

[edde]

Nnnnnnah. Sonic isn't really meant to be strong. He's meant to be fast. It would kinda go against his character to make him any stronger.

diddy kong is meant to be "weak"... get hit by his fmash, dsmash, fair, dair, ftilt and come again, Not saying sonic should be strong, but he needs a better usmash, dsmash and a different fspecial (dspecial is similar)... extra power on some of his aerials/tilts/special would be welcome aswel

 

[Altais]

Eh, I do not know if I completely agree. Sonic, obviously, is a speed-oriented character. This should naturally be balanced out with weaker attack power. Maybe they could give him better combo potential, but I personally find increased attack power to be a big no-no for Sonic. Besides, Sonic was not that weak in Brawl, if I must say so myself. Sonic's play style, in mine opinion, should be focused on mind games and chaining combos. If they give him too much brute power, we could easily end up with another Meta Knight.

[Shrugs] That being said, whom knows? They might give him more power, they might not.

 

[Demon-oni]

I do think giving him a some more power would do some wonders for him. I see where you're worried Altais, but honestly, he has other flaws than just power, and not being able to get a kill reliably until 160% is a little ridiculous. Honestly it would make him a lot better if they just increased the knock back on his neutral air, and made his down smash not absolute garbage. I know Sonic has a fairly awful moveset and that's supposed to be his main weakness, but ffs man, down smash was an abomination if there ever was one. Didn't have any relevant knockback on it's latency hits, initial hit KO'd around 120%, slow start up, only one hit so if it gets blocked you're gonna die because the recovery frames on it are long enough to get f smashed. Oh let's not forget it carries the same bad trait as 70% of sonic's moves where he's in ball form where you have no range and have basically fused your hit box with your body to make you nice and easy to hit. I mean seriously, what were they thinking?

 

[Mari]

Sonic is Speed, not Power.

But I wouldn't mind if they added a little more power.

Just a little.

 

[Altais]

I do think giving him a some more power would do some wonders for him. I see where you're worried Altais, but honestly, he has other flaws than just power, and not being able to get a kill reliably until 160% is a little ridiculous. Honestly it would make him a lot better if they just increased the knock back on his neutral air, and made his down smash not absolute garbage. I know Sonic has a fairly awful moveset and that's supposed to be his main weakness, but ffs man, down smash was an abomination if there ever was one. Didn't have any relevant knockback on it's latency hits, initial hit KO'd around 120%, slow start up, only one hit so if it gets blocked you're gonna die because the recovery frames on it are long enough to get f smashed. Oh let's not forget it carries the same bad trait as 70% of sonic's moves where he's in ball form where you have no range and have basically fused your hit box with your body to make you nice and easy to hit. I mean seriously, what were they thinking?

Hmm, points taken.

Now that I recall, his downward smash was pretty bad. Come to think of it, I do not think I ever used it when playing as Sonic.

Yeah, it would be good to see his neutral aerial have a little more knockback. I personally hope they change his neutral aerial into the wind sheild attack from Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Sonic & Knuckles (which was executed by jumping, then pressing the jump button again whilst in midair). I am also hoping they make his Homing Attack quicker, in addition to inflicting more hit-stun. I do not think I used that move much in Brawl either.

Hmm, perhaps they could give Sonic more defence (maybe super armour frames) whilst he is performing attacks in which he is curled in a ball. But then again, I do not know if that would give him an unfair advantage or not.

 

[Demon-oni]

Honestly super armor wouldn't fit his concept. His high overall movement speed allow him to play a rather effective bait and punish game, as well as allow him to never really be out of position to take unnecessary hits. Giving him super armor would just allow him to play a bit riskier up close, which wouldn't add much since he already plays risky in the first place with half his moves having no range. Because of this, even though it's nice to have super armor on his ball moves, it doesn't really do anything for him in the end unless you gave him a ridiculous amount, and I wouldn't want that to become the focus of his play style. Homing attack seems like a move that's hard to balance, but if I were to ask for a a buff, it should either be faster starting up so it's more reliable in combos, or have less recovery frames so that it's better for punishment and pressure. Down smash just needs a lot of things changed about it period. And like I said, neutral air should have a bit more knockback, maybe even hit at a steeper angle to aid his gimping game. Other than that, Sonic has a rather solid playstyle in Brawl. He could rack up damage decently, play effective bait and punish games with his run alone, and had probably one of the top 5 recoveries in the game giving him strong survivability for a middle weight, but his move set was rather horrible just hit-box/concept wise, he lacked effective kill methods without taking significant risk, and all of his grab options barring d-throw were rather lack luster. And for those defending up throw, up throw was good until your opponent learned to DI backwards, then it becomes just as ****ty as his forward and back throws.

 

[Zekersaurus]

diddy kong is meant to be "weak"... get hit by his fmash, dsmash, fair, dair, ftilt and come again, Not saying sonic should be strong, but he needs a better usmash, dsmash and a different fspecial (dspecial is similar)... extra power on some of his aerials/tilts/special would be welcome aswel

My response to that is this.

I do think giving him a some more power would do some wonders for him. I see where you're worried Altais, but honestly, he has other flaws than just power, and not being able to get a kill reliably until 160% is a little ridiculous. Honestly it would make him a lot better if they just increased the knock back on his neutral air, and made his down smash not absolute garbage. I know Sonic has a fairly awful moveset and that's supposed to be his main weakness, but ffs man, down smash was an abomination if there ever was one. Didn't have any relevant knockback on it's latency hits, initial hit KO'd around 120%, slow start up, only one hit so if it gets blocked you're gonna die because the recovery frames on it are long enough to get f smashed. Oh let's not forget it carries the same bad trait as 70% of sonic's moves where he's in ball form where you have no range and have basically fused your hit box with your body to make you nice and easy to hit. I mean seriously, what were they thinking?

and some of these.

Hmm, points taken.

Now that I recall, his downward smash was pretty bad. Come to think of it, I do not think I ever used it when playing as Sonic.

Yeah, it would be good to see his neutral aerial have a little more knockback. I personally hope they change his neutral aerial into the wind sheild attack from Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Sonic & Knuckles (which was executed by jumping, then pressing the jump button again whilst in midair). I am also hoping they make his Homing Attack quicker, in addition to inflicting more hit-stun. I do not think I used that move much in Brawl either.

Hmm, perhaps they could give Sonic more defence (maybe super armour frames) whilst he is performing attacks in which he is curled in a ball. But then again, I do not know if that would give him an unfair advantage or not.

Honestly super armor wouldn't fit his concept. His high overall movement speed allow him to play a rather effective bait and punish game, as well as allow him to never really be out of position to take unnecessary hits. Giving him super armor would just allow him to play a bit riskier up close, which wouldn't add much since he already plays risky in the first place with half his moves having no range. Because of this, even though it's nice to have super armor on his ball moves, it doesn't really do anything for him in the end unless you gave him a ridiculous amount, and I wouldn't want that to become the focus of his play style. Homing attack seems like a move that's hard to balance, but if I were to ask for a a buff, it should either be faster starting up so it's more reliable in combos, or have less recovery frames so that it's better for punishment and pressure. Down smash just needs a lot of things changed about it period. And like I said, neutral air should have a bit more knockback, maybe even hit at a steeper angle to aid his gimping game. Other than that, Sonic has a rather solid playstyle in Brawl. He could rack up damage decently, play effective bait and punish games with his run alone, and had probably one of the top 5 recoveries in the game giving him strong survivability for a middle weight, but his move set was rather horrible just hit-box/concept wise, he lacked effective kill methods without taking significant risk, and all of his grab options barring d-throw were rather lack luster. And for those defending up throw, up throw was good until your opponent learned to DI backwards, then it becomes just as ****ty as his forward and back throws.

Also, his Up smash sucks... unless I'm missing something. @ Altais I think the wind shield is a great idea. Sonic doesn't need armor though. Knuckles should get armor... Or at least he would if Sakurai would put him in the game!

But yeah Edde, Sonic could use some more power but it really wouldn't solve his more significant problems.

 

[Demon-oni]

Sonic Up smash doesn't suck. It's actually one of his better moves that's a round ball. The hit box is rather large despite him being a small sphere, and it being a multi hit move really gives it some decent trades. I've even heard people say it has invincibility, though I've never bothered to check. Either way, I like to use to counter people trying to recover high back to stage. Get's me roughly 80% per match, which is acceptable.

 

[Zekersaurus]

Sonic Up smash doesn't suck. It's actually one of his better moves that's a round ball. The hit box is rather large despite him being a small sphere, and it being a multi hit move really gives it some decent trades. I've even heard people say it has invincibility, though I've never bothered to check. Either way, I like to use to counter people trying to recover high back to stage. Get's me roughly 80% per match, which is acceptable.

HOLY CRAP! SORRY! I legit thought this was a PM Thread. Idk how that even happened. Embarrass

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

In seeing Lil Mac, I'm somewhat concerned. If Sonic has no changes, then quite frankly he'll look too much like the poor man's option to Lil' Mac or even Captain Falcon despite being faster on foot than either. I hope he gets something like a few moves that launch or things that help him chase better (hit harder when going faster?).

 

[Demon-oni]

I saw Little Mac had some similarities to Sonic, but honestly they still have quite a few differences between the two to really say Little Mac is just a better Sonic. We still don't know enough about either characters movesets to really determine how well they'll fair in the new game engine anyway, so I think it'll be best to be patient and wait for some tangible information.

And Sonic doesn't need anything to help him chase better. He has the best overall movement capabilities and bait-and-punish playstyles in the game, even looking at the new Smash this seems to remain true. What he needs is something that'll allow him to kill earlier. Whether that's power (allowing him to kill at earlier percentages), even stronger damaging racking capabilities (allowing him to kill at earlier times in the match and overall reducing the amount of time he's at risk for damage), or stronger gimping skills (allowing for roughly the same result as the damage racking buff route).

 

[War Anvil]

I think that Sonic will most likely go for combo spamming in this game, judging from what we've seen of him in motion.

Buffs I do think he may need or get? Well...

• Less move lag in general. That way, he can legitimately combo in the right hands.
  
• Quite a lot more priority on all of his moves. He's insanely fast; he should out-prioritize many things bar Smash Attacks and Final Smashes!
  
• Dair serving as his spike or semi-spike.
• Homing Attack sends the victim flying at the angle Sonic is hitting them at.
• Maybe, just maybe, beef up certain moves by 1 to 5%. I do agree the blue man's gotta have a teensy bit more power, y'dig?

Not saying any of these are gonna happen, but I'd be pleasantly surprised if Sonic's playstyle accommodated at least one of these in Sm4sh.

 

[victinivcreate1]

I think that Sonic will most likely go for combo spamming in this game, judging from what we've seen of him in motion.

Buffs I do think he may need or get? Well...

• Less move lag in general. That way, he can legitimately combo in the right hands.
  
• Quite a lot more priority on all of his moves. He's insanely fast; he should out-prioritize many things bar Smash Attacks and Final Smashes!
  
• Dair serving as his spike or semi-spike.
• Homing Attack sends the victim flying at the angle Sonic is hitting them at.
• Maybe, just maybe, beef up certain moves by 1 to 5%. I do agree the blue man's gotta have a teensy bit more power, y'dig?

Not saying any of these are gonna happen, but I'd be pleasantly surprised if Sonic's playstyle accommodated at least one of these in Sm4sh.

I never found his moves laggy, considering that many of them have hitboxes with long durations.

Speed does not equal priority. Being insanely fast doesn't mean he should have higher priority. Also, Smash Attacks don't necessarily have high priority. Final Smashes aren't meant to be clashable, they're meant to be OP.

Everything else I can agree with.

 

[Demon-oni]

@ War Anvil
Don't take anything you see in motion at full value. Remember in the first motion clip for Brawl we saw Kirby had his aerial side B behave like Melee when that is clearly not the case. Many things can change in between a promotional trailer and the release of the actual game. For all we know, Sakurai could reinstate random tripping and make it so aerials don't have hit stun. Is it gonna happen? Not likely, but we can't just assume everything we see is what we will get.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Are you kidding? Sonic was my best character in Brawl! But yes, he could use some kinda beef to make him stronger.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

Are you kidding? Sonic was my best character in Brawl! But yes, he could use some kinda beef to make him stronger.

The only thing I could see Sonic getting is more range on some of his attacks (mostly on the moves that have killing potential (back air being a prime example, his best killing move in Brawl and it had really bad range).
Overall a slight power buff (as long as it's not overdone) would really help Sonic, after all Sakurai is trying to balance out the game to make everyone at least competitively balanced, this includes Sonic.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

the most beneficial thing other than more power which i feel should only be given to nair and dsmash iss hitstun. IF smash 4 has more hitstun than brawl sonic can reliably utilize his spin dash setups to actually land his kill moves, othr than that i'd say he needs less lag on some of his moves like forward tilt and better startup on things like Bair Nair and Dsmash. But i'd take Dair spiking and the game having more hitstun and be all set with sonic. As for the need to change his side B i'd say make it like the aerial somersault he does in lost worlds the one that sends out a projectile, light dash/boost. If instead they changed down B i'd hope it would be the bounce attack. But i'd be ok with sonic if they left his special alone although i would be disappointed.

 

[Demon-oni]

@ kid craft 24/sonic master
I do agree with you for the most part. More kill power on his nair/dsmash as well as a better/faster start up animation would do wonders for the character. His spin dash set ups already allow him to land consistent Bairs, which is a reliable kill move for Sonic. The main problem being that it's his only reliable kill move as well as a combo move from spin dash, making stale moves make this move less reliable as a finisher as the match progresses. His Dair actually would function much better if it wasn't so risky to miss, because the initial hit was a decent semi-spike and the latter hit upwards allowing for spring follow-ups. So long as it gets a slight power boost and maybe not as much landing recovery, it will see some use in the next installment.

As for the hit stun, it turns out if you looked at the hit stun values for both Melee and Brawl, they were identical. The thing that took away combos in Brawl was the fact that air dodging had a coding error that allowed it to cancel hit stun. So long as they debug their coding a bit, it's more likely that we could see combos return in Smash 4, though no proof has been shown either way. I'd love if either his down or side special changed to give him more of an arsenal, but I'm not holding my breathe as of yet. Hell, Mario still has Fludd.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sonic excels at speed, but not power. I will admit though that Sonic has had problems KOing even the lightweights, and could deserve a power buff for some of his attacks.

Of course, power alone won't help if you still have to attack the adversary directly, and if the adversary can outreach Sonic, the power buff may end up falling on deaf ears most of the time.

 

[Tornado_Man]

He needs a buff in general. Just enough for him to KO reliably.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

He needs a buff in general. Just enough for him to KO reliably.

If it's a straight up power buff, you'd have to take Sonic's speed away, a slight power buff on all of his moves (sans the Spring projectile, since that's a somewhat decent move already) and some range on most of his attacks is all he needs basically, giving him too much power and we get Meta Knight 2.0 (plus Super Sonic).

 

[Tornado_Man]

If it's a straight up power buff, you'd have to take Sonic's speed away, a slight power buff on all of moves (sans the Spring projectile, since that's a somewhat decent move already) and some range on most of his attacks is all he needs basically, giving him too much power and we get Meta Knight 2.0 (plus Super Sonic).

Yeah, I agree. Just make him able to actually do more than Backair to win.

 

[Gabe Hartzog]

Judging by the footage from the Nintendo Direct, it looks like Sonic's spin dashes are a lot faster than Brawl and it seems that his Dair has some meteor properties.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

Judging by the footage from the Nintendo Direct, it looks like Sonic's spin dashes are a lot faster than Brawl and it seems that his Dair has some meteor properties.

His down air is now confirmed to be a meteor smash (although it's going to be a high risking meteor smash, since you're falling at the same time as your opponent, although if your quick enough you can spring jump back to the stage.)

It's hard to tell but it seems Sonic has a few new aerial attacks now (it's shown in the same trailer as the 1 where Sonic is doing his down air attack).

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

well all his aerials seem to just have been reanimated to look smoother and faster, which is great. Also his spring continues to fall even after it makes contact with someone. Overall sonic's looking to be pretty good in smash 4 (although how he stakes up against the rest of the cast and their buffs has yet to be seen). The only real question that remains is if his Spin Dash and Spin Charge specials have been combined into one move and if so what his new special attack is. I'm hoping they were able to do that and come up with something that fits his current moveset, although if they left his special as is i wouldn't be too upset

 

[Johnny Wellens]

well all his aerials seem to just have been reanimated to look smoother and faster, which is great. Also his spring continues to fall even after it makes contact with someone. Overall sonic's looking to be pretty good in smash 4 (although how he stakes up against the rest of the cast and their buffs has yet to be seen). The only real question that remains is if his Spin Dash and Spin Charge specials have been combined into one move and if so what his new special attack is. I'm hoping they were able to do that and come up with something that fits his current moveset, although if they left his special as is i wouldn't be too upset

I agree on all counts. He looks to be much smoother this time. I figured all he needed from Brawl were a few buffs, nothing major, and he'd be much better. Liking what I see.