some speculation

[hidensheik11]

is there a more forgiving window to l-cancel with Z rather than L or R in theory? near the first actionable frame after a move, L or R will make you airdodge, while in the same situation, z will make you l-cancel.. it's really weird, like you can airdodge before the last few frames of lag

 

[Stride]

is there a more forgiving window to l-cancel with Z rather than L or R in theory? near the first actionable frame after a move, L or R will make you airdodge, while in the same situation, z will make you l-cancel.. it's really weird, like you can airdodge before the last few frames of lag

If you're able to airdodge, then the move has finished and it's not possible to L-cancel (nor do you need to).

You can L-cancel with a light (analogue) press; an airdodge requires a hard (digital) press. The Z button is just a macro for "very light shield + A", so using Z is equivalent to using a light press with one of the triggers.

The window for an L-cancel is the 7 frames before landing regardless of how you input it.

 

[Narpas_sword]

You can L-cancel with a light (analogue) press; an airdodge requires a hard (digital) press. The Z button is just a macro for "very light shield + A", so using Z is equivalent to using a light press with one of the triggers..

I think in PM, Z counts as hard shield; missing an L-Cancel with it will ruin your tech window.

In theory, you should have more of a chance L-Canceling with L or R, and staggering from soft to hard press, as it would count it as two different inputs. (and as there's no fail window for L-Cancel, mashing at the input is ok.)

Although, you really only want to softpress to L-Cancel.

 

[Stride]

I think in PM, Z counts as hard shield; missing an L-Cancel with it will ruin your tech window.

In theory, you should have more of a chance L-Canceling with L or R, and staggering from soft to hard press, as it would count it as two different inputs. (and as there's no fail window for L-Cancel, mashing at the input is ok.)

Although, you really only want to softpress to L-Cancel.

Right. I didn't notice that this was the PM board and unconsciously assumed it was the Melee one. I'm not sure about Z counting as a hard press, since PM definitely distinguishes light and hard presses in some cases (airdodges are hard press only). Maybe it doesn't apply completely/universally like in Melee though.

Do you know any players that actually stagger/mash L-cancels? It certainly works, but honestly seems like more trouble than it's worth since the timing for L-cancelling is so lenient. At least, I can't imagine anyone who can already L-cancel consistently benefiting from it, except for maybe when they connect with a move with extremely large amounts of hitlag.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Right. I didn't notice that this was the PM board and unconsciously assumed it was the Melee one. I'm not sure about Z counting as a hard press, since PM definitely distinguishes light and hard presses in some cases (airdodges are hard press only). Maybe it doesn't apply completely/universally like in Melee though.

Do you know any players that actually stagger/mash L-cancels? It certainly works, but honestly seems like more trouble than it's worth since the timing for L-cancelling is so lenient. At least, I can't imagine anyone who can already L-cancel consistently benefiting from it, except for maybe when they connect with a move with extremely large amounts of hitlag.

anyone hard pressing L is technically staggering =p albeit it only covering two different frames at best.
But, no, id imagine most people just press L when they need to.

 

[Chevy]

anyone hard pressing L is technically staggering =p albeit it only covering two different frames at best.
But, no, id imagine most people just press L when they need to.

Not necessarily, you can press all the way down in 1 frame. Also the Z macro is definitely hard press in PM, which is why you can't z-air out of tumble anymore.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Not necessarily, you can press all the way down in 1 frame. Also the Z macro is definitely hard press in PM, which is why you can't z-air out of tumble anymore.

yes, that's why I said, "at best"
at worst, they'll stagger the inputs within a frame.

The inputs would come after another, though the game might only read it as one.

=p

 

[Chevy]

yes, that's why I said, "at best"
at worst, they'll stagger the inputs within a frame.

The inputs would come after another, though the game might only read it as one.

=p

My interpretation was 2 frames at best equals 2 consecutive frames, best and worst are kind of ambiguous here. Words amirite?