Solo viable characters in Melee

[Kulty]

Hi guys,

After having so much fun in Project M, I want to improve my Melee fundamentals. The first thing that I want to know is that who are great solo viable mains in Melee? What I mean is that who are the characters that don't require another character in order to perform well in tournaments? Imo, these characters are: . Is it too much characters or do I miss some characters?

Btw, so far, my main is , along with and as secondaries.

 

[EPsilon933]

Most will say that Fox, Falco, Sheik, Jigglypuff, Marth, Peach, Ice Climbers, and Captain Falcon are the only tournament viables of this game. There might not really be such a thing as a character requirement. Or at least, skill is required more

Fox and Falco are commonly believed to be the only 2 characters in this game with no disadvantageous match ups. Although some say Falco slightly loses to Peach

 

[GenNyan]

I'd definitely say that Pikachu is viable as well, considering how long Axe has been considered a top player and his track record (For the "winning a national" argument, I refer you to Falcon, who hasn't done so in quite some time and is still considered viable).

Keep in mind that even if a character isn't viable at the highest level of play, it can still get quite far. Kind of depends on what you want to get from playing melee.

 

[Sutekh]

Any of the top 8 are pretty viable at all levels of play, it really just comes down to matchups. Choosing to play a character because you really enjoy how you can play the game through that character will get you way further than choosing a character because you've heard people say they are the best. It is recommended to pick from the top 8, as those are the characters that have the least unfavorable matchups, but if you don't click with any of them and you're absolutely in love with Samus or Gannondorf, take that **** all the way to the bank. There are characters that put you at a significant disadvantage (Pichu, Kirby, Bowser...), but it really depends on how far you want to take Melee. There's a guy that's a damn good G&W main at the weekly I attend that just made top 3. He can enjoy the level of celebrity that comes with being the surprisingly good G&W in our scene, but he'd have a lot harder time accomplishing the same feat at a regional or national tourney.

So basically, assessing what your goals are can help you narrow down who you should play. If you're shooting for the very top, you're probably gonna wanna pick from the top 5 (Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, Jiggs). If you want to see some success in your local scene and maybe attend some regionals, you could probably keep it to the top half of the cast. If you just wanna play with friends and go to locals sometimes, go wild and main that Pichu.

 

[EddyBearr]

I'd argue that it depends on what you're trying to do.

In my opinion:
Win a major (TBH5):
Win a national (INY): Also
Be cursed: Also
Win a regional (SN3): Also
Win a "Large Local" (32+ entrants, strong competition): Also
Win a "Small Local" (16-32 entrants, less competition): Also
Never Viable:

The better the region, the lower the viable cast. For example, take SoCal: It was very impressive that a Regional-potential character like Luigi could win one of their large locals.
You can view this is Top Tier, High Tier, Borderline Tier, Viable Tier, Mid Tier, Low Tier, Bottom Tier

The "Major Tournament" dream for each tier:
Top Tier: Never drop a game
High Tier: Win the major
Borderline tier: Break the curse
Viable Tier: Top 8 the major
Mid Tier: Top 32 the major
Low Tier: Get 33rd at the major
Bottom Tier: To actually have representation

 

[Kulty]

Thanks guys,

I just have trouble finding a great character between the top 8. I know I want to main , because he's the character that I'm the most comfortable with within the top 8 characters in Melee. Characters that I'm comfortable and that I enjoy within the top 8 characters are only and . The others not within top 8 (but close to it) are . I'm really struggling against , because they have weaknesses that really prevent me from picking them, such as being incredibly light (a glass canon, but I'll try to work with it) and having to commit through every move he makes since he has no projectiles.

 

[Kulty]

Also,

Who have great results in the recent metagame among the high mid-tiers? I heard that are in great shape during these recent years since the last tier list published. might drop down in the next tier list right? I don't follow Melee tournaments that much, so I'm not sure.

 

[EPsilon933]

Thanks guys,

I just have trouble finding a great character between the top 8. I know I want to main , because he's the character that I'm the most comfortable with within the top 8 characters in Melee. Characters that I'm comfortable and that I enjoy within the top 8 characters are only and . The others not within top 8 (but close to it) are . I'm really struggling against , because they have weaknesses that really prevent me from picking them, such as being incredibly light (a glass canon, but I'll try to work with it) and having to commit through every move he makes since he has no projectiles.

Marth is fine. Stick with him. Sheik is only a minor disadvantage. Some say Falcon gives him a little trouble, others say it's even

 

[necroTaxonomist]

I'd argue that it depends on what you're trying to do.

In my opinion:
Win a major (TBH5):
Win a national (INY): Also
Be cursed: Also
Win a regional (SN3): Also
Win a "Large Local" (32+ entrants, strong competition): Also
Win a "Small Local" (16-32 entrants, less competition): Also
Never Viable:

I think that what you just posted is a ten times better metric for character viability than a tier list.
Though I don't think that Pichu is completely unviable because he can at least string uairs.
Bowser is probably the only never viable character just because his Sheik matchup is practically unwinnable.

 

[Deleted member]

Is Mario solo viable at all in this game? If anything it feels like he's been outclassed by Luigi and Doc.

 

[Kulty]

Is Mario solo viable at all in this game? If anything it feels like he's been outclassed by Luigi and Doc.

I personally do feel he's the last character of being borderline viable. He just needs more representation, because many people prefer Doc over Mario, because of better projectiles and better KO power which Mario lacks compared to Doc. And it sucks.

 

[Kulty]

Marth is fine. Stick with him. Sheik is only a minor disadvantage. Some say Falcon gives him a little trouble, others say it's even

What about Jigglypuff? I heard he gives Marth a lot of trouble. I don't know now how it has changed but I just want to know.

 

[Deleted member]

I personally do feel he's the last character of being borderline viable. He just needs more representation, because many people prefer Doc over Mario, because of better projectiles and better KO power which Mario lacks compared to Doc. And it sucks.

I really do wish Mario got more representation. The biggest thing drawing him down is lesser KO power to Doc, but he's got a better recovery than Doc at least.

 

[RetroGamersGuru]

What about Jigglypuff? I heard he gives Marth a lot of trouble. I don't know now how it has changed but I just want to know.

It depends on the Marth now. It used to be in favor of Jigglypuff, and now we know many things that Marth can do against Jigglypuff which were put into practice by PPU against Hbox. I think it's in Marth's favor, but what Marth has to do against her is different from his spacies matchups.

 

[EddyBearr]

Thanks guys,

I just have trouble finding a great character between the top 8. I know I want to main , because he's the character that I'm the most comfortable with within the top 8 characters in Melee. Characters that I'm comfortable and that I enjoy within the top 8 characters are only and . The others not within top 8 (but close to it) are . I'm really struggling against , because they have weaknesses that really prevent me from picking them, such as being incredibly light (a glass canon, but I'll try to work with it) and having to commit through every move he makes since he has no projectiles.

If you crouch cancel a lot as Falco, then he goes from being a glass cannon to just being unfair for the opponent. If you're suffering from lengthy combos, "guaranteed/easy" edgeguards, or chain-grabs, then you pretty much just need to improve your DI, mix-ups, and spatial recognition (comes mostly with experience but should be thoughtful while doing it).

 

[Flippy Flippersen]

I think that what you just posted is a ten times better metric for character viability than a tier list.
Though I don't think that Pichu is completely unviable because he can at least string uairs.
Bowser is probably the only never viable character just because his Sheik matchup is practically unwinnable.

There's plenty more matchups for bowser that are unwinnable as long as the bowser isn't 20 times as good as his opponent. I personally believe that especially in current day and age a lack of matchup experience isn't enough for characters like simply because tech skill is far easier to get than it used to. If they don't fall to a sheik that is willing to force them to approach they can just as easily lose to a decent spacey just winging it or just other generally better characters In this list ganon does ok against ics link does ok against marth and young link does ok against peach/puff (and maybe samus I don't know for sure) Every other character is a struggle that requires a lot of knowledge about the opposing character and even then the opposing character can just choose to learn the matchup as well and you're back to a terrible matchup because these characters simply lack tools for neutral that are standard for the other characters without anything to really make up for it.

 

[Kulty]

If you crouch cancel a lot as Falco, then he goes from being a glass cannon to just being unfair for the opponent. If you're suffering from lengthy combos, "guaranteed/easy" edgeguards, or chain-grabs, then you pretty much just need to improve your DI, mix-ups, and spatial recognition (comes mostly with experience but should be thoughtful while doing it).

Thanks for the tips. I'm trying to learn Falco at the same time as Marth and Doc, because I prefer Falco over Fox.

 

[-ACE-]

Matchup wise Ganon only loses to

Fox sheik (bad)
Falco jiggs falcon (bad enough)
Marth peach (not so bad)
Pikachu Samus (very close)

Most of what is left is close to even, the remaining Ganon destroys.

5 bad matchups. Not so bad. With more representation Ganon is capable of a lot more than we've seen this far. At least, until the meta catches up again lol.

 

[Flippy Flippersen]

Matchup wise Ganon only loses to

Fox sheik (bad)
Falco jiggs falcon (bad enough)
Marth peach (not so bad)
Pikachu Samus (very close)

Most of what is left is close to even, the remaining Ganon destroys.

5 bad matchups. Not so bad. With more representation Ganon is capable of a lot more than we've seen this far. At least, until the meta catches up again lol.

I would argue marth is also a pretty bad matchup about anywhere that isn't yoshis. But even outside of that getting destroyed by 2 commonly played characters and just losing significantly to 3 (or 4 if you also wanna count marth) is pretty terrible. Using the statistics of character usage of this site 40~50 ish% of players plays fox sheik an addional 30~40 ish% for falco jiggs (rounded up cause its done in actual numbers rather than percentages) But that means statistically between 70 and 90% of the matches ganon has will be somewhere between bad and horrible. (If you agree marth is also bad that would be between 85 and cause of my bad math 100)

Ganon doesn't lose a lot of matchups hard but to be considered a bad character you don't have to lose against 20 ish characters you have to lose against like 2~3 ish.

 

[-ACE-]

Nah marth isn't as bad as the others. Not many Ganons are truly great vs marth, and there are like 5x as many good marth's as there are Ganons, so I think that is influencing your thoughts. All of his matchups are winnable within reason imho.

I wasn't really arguing a particular stance on Ganon's viability as much as I was helping put some things in perspective. The average person knows very little about Ganon, so...

 

[Flippy Flippersen]

Nah marth isn't as bad as the others. Not many Ganons are truly great vs marth, and there are like 5x as many good marth's as there are Ganons, so I think that is influencing your thoughts. All of his matchups are winnable within reason imho.

I wasn't really arguing a particular stance on Ganon's viability as much as I was helping put some things in perspective. The average person knows very little about Ganon, so...

I assumed you made the post based on my earlier statement where I said maining a list of characters (including ganon) wouldn't realistically be viable because of how few matchups they actually win against solid characters and felt the need to defend my statement on why I personally believe he is not at all viable to main.

I will admit I know next to nothing of ganondorf cause the characters I use most are fox and sheik and because of this against any ganon of my level I honestly don't need to. (also we don't really have ganons here)

 

[MurphyPrime]

Amsa (yoshi) got 5th at Apex, Abate (Weegee) top 8 in TBH5, Axe (pikachu) at various majors. Samus is pretty solid too, but can't think of anything noticeable off the top of my head. Ganon, Doc, Mario haven't seen much this year.

 

[MurphyPrime]

I think Ganon Marth is very close to even until the highest level of play. Then Marth pulls away. It's certainly not the worst matchup for Ganon.

 

[-ACE-]

Ganon actually does better vs marth at higher level (within human capability... I'm sure TAS marth beats TAS Ganon badly). There just aren't a lot of Ganons that are insanely good vs marth for you to see. If you watch the recent kage vs moon set you'll see Kage can't even edgeguard Marth that effectively. Ganon can actually compete with marth's range, 0-death him relatively easily, and edgeguard him easily as well. When you're using all his tools marth is just not a HUGE threat like the other characters I listed.

 

[zero sum]

purely hypothetical but here's what i think rn in today's meta:
can win supermajors (think apex/evo/stacked six-god tournaments): fox, marth, falco, sheik
borderline viable/would probably need bracket luck to win but could probably get top 3 semi-consistently: puff, peach, falcon
could make top 8/16 solo: ics, pikachu, samus, probably yoshi, luigi, dr mario
top 32: ganondorf, mario, maybe one or both of the links

rest barely matter at a national level imo

but if you're not competing at that level you could probably win locals with virtually any character if you're good enough. i know a guy who could probably win the locals i attend going young link or ganondorf because he's vastly better than most people (including me) who show up. just depends on what you shoot for really