So, why exactly was Snake cut?

[NonSpecificGuy]

My fellow Mod Irene and I have had this discussion multiple times before and there really is no clean cut answer. So, why do you guys think Snake was cut?

 

[Donkey_Butter]

Was it something to do with Nintendo having to renew a license with Konami? I think Sega has a better relationship built up with Nintendo than Konami does, so that could also be why we saw Sonic return and not Snake.

 

[Captain Shades]

I think it was a multitude of reasons

1) Smash’s Art Design
The art design for Wii U and 3DS was overall more cartoony, especially when compared to Brawl, so it might have been hard to fit such a realistic character in Smash’s art style at the time.

2) The E10 Rating
Smash for Wii U wanted to be rated lower than Brawl which had a T rating, mainly due to Snake’s realistic weapons. Just like the art style it may have been hard to fit Snake in at the time.

3) Konami’s Permission
Konami may have restricted the use of Snake at the time. No one truly knows what went on in the company, but it is a possibility.

4) Konami’s Downfall
Literally a year after Smash released, the public became aware of Konami’s awful practices. Konami treated workers poorly, cancelled many titles and was looking to go into the pachinko market. The only reason Snake was in Brawl was because Sakurai was close friends with his creator, and as we know Konami treated Sakurai’s pal awfully. His name was stripped from Metal Gear and he was fired, so maybe Sakurai saw the writing on the wall and chose not to work with the crazy Konami that was presented at the time.

 

[Deleted member]

2) The E10 Rating
Smash for Wii U wanted to be rated lower than Brawl which had a T rating, mainly due to Snake’s realistic weapons. Just like the art style it may have been hard to fit Snake in at the time.

I don't think this played a role in the decision to cut Snake. Smash 4 has the same rating as Brawl everywhere except North America.

 

[Diem]

Konami probably wasn't interested at the time, given Nintendo's lackluster performance with the Wii U and their overall growing apathy towards AAA game development. Not to mention, the new upcoming game was Metal Gear Solid V, which stars Big Boss, not Solid Snake, and had a much darker tone than, say, Twin Snakes. I used to joke that if (Venom) Snake was in Smash 4, his Final Smash would be him waterboarding the opponent. When Brawl came out, MGS4 was the upcoming game, starring Solid, so I imagine for Smash 4, some execs at Konami might've been like "But Solid Snake isn't in the new game, so there's no point." Also, Snake being in Brawl had more to do with Kojima than Konami, as apparently the story goes that Kojima's son was a big fan of Super Smash and wanted Snake to be in Melee, and Kojima is friends with Sakurai, but the game was too far along in development to add him, so he was put into Brawl instead. And we all know how Konami and Kojima feel about each other, then and now.

Sakurai probably could've gotten Snake back for Smash 4 if he really wanted to, but he would've known about the atmosphere at Konami, and realized it wasn't worth the drama. He got Mega Man, so dropping Snake wouldn't be as big of a blow.

But times have changed. Whereas Snake in Brawl was one of two third party characters, Smash 4 had Mega Man, Pac Man, Ryu, Cloud, and Bayonetta by the end of its life cycle, so third party characters are much more common and span multiple studios, which in turn gets each individual character more attention. MGSV has come and gone, and Konami, despite their apathy towards AAA game development, seems to at least enjoy licensing out their characters for random purposes. From having all kinds of characters have playable cameos in Super Bomber Man R to getting David Hayter and Paul Eiding reprise their roles for a Ford Focus commercial, they're not being completely idle with their intellectual property.

I also imagine that Sakurai and Nintendo lobbied much harder to get Snake back this time around, given the "EVERYONE IS BACK" goal. Sakurai even said that it wasn't necessarily easy to get every character to return, and that he had to "twist some arms to make this dream a reality." So it just seemed like the right amount of motivation and timing for this to occur, which is why Sakurai went for this plan instead of cutting the roster down and redesigning the game. Otherwise, it's unlikely that Snake would ever come back.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Kojima controversy, Wii U downfall, Konami in general...pretty much what everyone else as already said

 

[Yosher]

Yeah, I think if you've at least been keeping up with gaming news over the years somewhat, you'd have picked up the news of Konami treating their workers poorly and all that, with Kojima, Snake's creator, even leaving Konami. And with Sakurai being good friends with Kojima, I can see him just not wanting to bring Snake back just to spite Konami, honestly. Really the only reason Snake has returned here is most likely because he was part of Smash's history, pretty much the same reason Pichu and Young Link returning, except Snake's return probably needed much more arm twisting than was needed for those two. Then again, we don't know how much Konami really wanted Snake to return either, so...

 

[cmbsfm]

Anyone remember this topic from 2014? The article was taken down a week later, but it is interesting, and I think it was closer to the truth even if it was false info.

I do not think it had anything to do with Konami. In fact, a lot of the Konami stuff became public after Smash 4's release, so I do not think it applies to the base game. Not to mention, the roster for smash 4 was decided around 2012/2011, and Konami weren't known as the bad guys they are today. Also, guess what game released during that time? Snake Eater 3D. Seems like it would be play into Snake's favor, but it didn't.

Perhaps Sakurai didn't want to spend to much resources negotiating more than 3 third parties, which I think was the number thrown around for the max during Brawl. After all, he himself said he wanted to keep third parties to a minimum in smash 4. Sakurai could have just viewed him as a one time thing back then and Sonic may edged him out thanks to his Wii U deal.

For DLC, I guess the Konami thing could apply there. I'm not sure when the DLC characters were decided, I'm guessing late 2014/early 2015, which means he could have known it was not a good time. But then again, the project plan was decided in 2015, when all the Konami stuff released, meaning that Sakurai wanted to bring him back at that point. The Konami situation was at it's height then, with Kojima being barred from the game awards and all that. So the Konami situation didn't really scare him away from trying.

As for it being viewed as a betrayal by Kojima, I doubt it. I guarantee you Sakurai probably asked him if it was cool before even making the move. Why would Kojima even say no? It was his idea in the first place. He even retween Ultimate's trailer.

And it seems like Konami is cooperating pretty well. Snake is in, Bomberman is an AT, and if verge is right, Simon Belmont is in too.

Overall, I'm leaning towards Snake's cut not being the result of failed negotiations with Konami or what not.

 

[nuclearneo577]

I really hope that Sakurai elaborates about this at some point, something obviously changed between 4 and Ultimate since Konami has three playable characters now. I know that the time frame of Konami hating video games and how its relevant to Smash's development period is somewhat unclear, but I would assume that it was largely their fault.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

It was a pretty awkward period for Snake and Konami, but I also think Snake just wasn't a priority. Sakurai seemed focus on introducing new and unique newcomers for Smash 4, and highlighting the duality of the 3ds and WiiU versions. He just got lost in the shuffle.

 

[FirestormNeos]

For the same reason Mega Man didn't show up in a game until Smash 4; Konami and Kojima were at eachother's throats during the development of MGSV, and Konami said no to Snake's appearance as a result.

With Kojima gone, and Metal Gear Survive turning out to be a flop, Konami realizes they need to treat Snek and the Castlevania series with at least the bare minimum of respect, so they let Snake be in Ultimate and even throw in a few Belmonts to make up for it.