So wait, are we going to use custom moves online or no?

[EgeDal]

Today there we saw some very detailed custom moves unlike Mario's long shot fireball or slow round one. Now i'm very confused, if we can't use them online, what's the point? Or can we use custom moves online?

 

[Hong]

You can use them online. Just not anonymously with strangers.

 

[LIQUID12A]

You can use them With Friends online, like the Miis.

Miis and custom moves probably caused it in the first place.

 

[Raijinken]

You can also use them locally. Online ain't the only way to play.

 

[strawhatninja]

I thought maybe you could use them in for fun maybe? I know for sure not for glory.

 

[infomon]

I think the main reason they can't be used online is because it's important to know what moves your opponents have equipped before you start the match. Otherwise it's a very different game (you're guessing which options they have until finally they use one), which probably isn't what Sakurai wanted for the online For Glory mode.

Offline of course we don't have this problem, we can devise a match-setup strategy where characters pick their characters, then pick their moves, then pick the stage... so everyone has full information before the match starts.

Also, custom-moves are unlockable, so it might be weird to play online For Glory when your opponents might simply have better moves than the ones you've unlocked. Although they're supposed to be balanced, Sakurai probably has not invested the effort to balance characters perfectly in the context of special moves (and certainly when one player has more / different move options than the other has even unlocked!)

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

Miis and custom moves are with friends only. Custom moves I can understand but I never got why the mii's were limited, I understand they're customizable but they likely have a "default". His thing about bullying is ridiculous. The only people you'd be bothering or bullying would be the people you know and are playing with. And since those are the people you're allowed to play with anyways what's the point of limiting the mii's.
But whatever guess I'll just have to play against the npc's if I want to play one of the mii's.

 

[infomon]

I think you underestimate the number of people who would play as Hitler-Mii online vs randoms.

But ya I hope Miis are playable in For Glory just with a handful of defaults, it makes no sense to cut them entirely.

 

[TerminalMontage]

I think the main reason they can't be used online is because it's important to know what moves your opponents have equipped before you start the match. Otherwise it's a very different game (you're guessing which options they have until finally they use one), which probably isn't what Sakurai wanted for the online For Glory mode.

Offline of course we don't have this problem, we can devise a match-setup strategy where characters pick their characters, then pick their moves, then pick the stage... so everyone has full information before the match starts.

Also, custom-moves are unlockable, so it might be weird to play online For Glory when your opponents might simply have better moves than the ones you've unlocked. Although they're supposed to be balanced, Sakurai probably has not invested the effort to balance characters perfectly in the context of special moves (and certainly when one player has more / different move options than the other has even unlocked!)

Makes sense.

I wish in For Fun and For Glory there were a bit more options, like having the choice to fight randoms with custom moves on or off before searching for a game. Instead of always not being able to use custom moves.

 

[Reila]

Custom moves aren't available in For Glory move, so I doubt I will even touch them. I don't want to get used to certain moves only to not be able to use the moves in For Glory matches.

 

[Stalkos]

I agree and understand the limitations of custom Miis in online modes.

But, I also don't see why not set a standard outfit and standard moves for the 3 Miis and treat them like uncustomized characters, and enable them for online modes.

I believe that the system will have this kind of default customs already, to be used in the multi man mode. So why not let it be used online?

 

[Khao]

I think the main reason they can't be used online is because it's important to know what moves your opponents have equipped before you start the match. Otherwise it's a very different game (you're guessing which options they have until finally they use one), which probably isn't what Sakurai wanted for the online For Glory mode.

Except random button is a thing.

 

[infomon]

Except random button is a thing.

Well, as soon as the match starts you know your opponent. That's quite different than starting the match, fighting commenses, but you don't know what any of their specials actually do until they use them.

But you're right, my argument is a bit weak. I do think it's strange that custom moves aren't allowed in For Glory mode. Oh Sakurai...

 

[Deleted member]

Except random button is a thing.

Do you mean they can use a random character? Even if they use one you still know that characters moves. if custom moves were available online, then you wouldn't be able to know if Mario's fludd is going to hurt you or if his fire balls will be long range or not. Knowing what moves are being used before hand can make the difference in winning the initial stock or not

 

[Khao]

Maybe leaving them off of For Glory is just their way to say "these are just fun little extras not meant to be balanced," but that'd be so lame, I'm going to blindly dismiss the idea.

Do you mean they can use a random character? Even if they use one you still know that characters moves. if custom moves were available online, then you wouldn't be able to know if Mario's fludd is going to hurt you or if his fire balls will be long range or not. Knowing what moves are being used before hand can make the difference in winning the initial stock or not

The same advantage is given to you, though, I actually really like the idea of not knowing exactly what moves is your opponent going to have, it'll make the fight feel really fresh, and make you approach your opponent more carefully. You already don't know the fighting style of your opponent, this takes it a step further. A huge step further, but still.

Yeah, I'd like fighting someone online without knowing what to expect.

 

[infomon]

Actually, it's a very interesting point.... I wonder if picking random character also gives you random specials on that character.

My guess is not -- as much as I love custom moves, it feels like Sakurai is keeping them a liiiiittle bit separate from each character's "default" moves. I wonder if that would work the same for Palutena. Also, can Random pick you a random Mii ??

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe leaving them off of For Glory is just their way to say "these are just fun little extras not meant to be balanced," but that'd be so lame, I'm going to blindly dismiss the idea.

The same advantage is given to you, though, I actually really like the idea of not knowing exactly what moves is your opponent going to have, it'll make the fight feel really fresh, and make you approach your opponent more carefully. You already don't know the fighting style of your opponent, this takes it a step further. A huge step further, but still.

Yeah, I'd like fighting someone online without knowing what to expect.

I can't help but think that that would be boring to watch if someone streamed and you watched. Like you said the match would start out very defensive, and would likely stay very defensive for the whole match if for glory is only 2 minute matches

 

[Khao]

I can't help but think that that would be boring to watch if someone streamed and you watched. Like you said the match would start out very defensive, and would likely stay very defensive for the whole match if for glory is only 2 minute matches

If For Glory is only 2 minute, time matches, it's gonna be boring to watch either way. =P

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Do you mean they can use a random character? Even if they use one you still know that characters moves. if custom moves were available online, then you wouldn't be able to know if Mario's fludd is going to hurt you or if his fire balls will be long range or not. Knowing what moves are being used before hand can make the difference in winning the initial stock or not

How is this different from competitive Pokemon?

 

[Deleted member]

How is this different from competitive Pokemon?

In Pokemon you at least know the type you're against, and it's expected that you will have a counter attack or an unexpected attack. And it's also a strategy game versus a fighting game. Is there any fighting game that actually uses custom moves for competitive play?

If For Glory is only 2 minute, time matches, it's gonna be boring to watch either way. =P

You can have a fun to watch match in 2 minutes. If you have watched any online random brawl streams they can be fun to watch

 

[ミスティック Speed]

I believe custom moves could become a great part of competitive Smash. People just have to allow it and accept it first.

 

[Hong]

How is this different from competitive Pokemon?

Because Pokemon is fundamentally oriented so that strategy by means of information withheld from the enemy is a design choice that works very well for a turn-based game where you have not one, but multiple characters in succession. All fighting games either display the information before-hand or limit customization online because the design intent of the genre. Fighting games have more ways a move, even when you know the enemy has it, could surprise you in other ways than a turn-based game.

 

[JUr]

Also there's the fact that, unlike Palutena, the Miis doesn't have a default moveset since the beggining...

I think that the Mii's online situation it's a drastic after-effect, with no customization simply goes away the characters totally based in customization...

 

[EgeDal]

I think Mii characters are trash if you can't use them online(for glory), also custom moves are trash too, in my opinion, because i'm mostly into online and offline modes has to be there to ready you for burly opponents out there. It's just how i see things.
I really am not touching Miis nor Custom moves.

Mii's could've been default faces (no troll mii), and default moves, EASY. Also, i'm not a fan of custom move concept at all, but good for fun.

 

[Egg-Off the Conquerer]

Miis and custom moves are with friends only. Custom moves I can understand but I never got why the mii's were limited, I understand they're customizable but they likely have a "default". His thing about bullying is ridiculous. The only people you'd be bothering or bullying would be the people you know and are playing with. And since those are the people you're allowed to play with anyways what's the point of limiting the mii's.
But whatever guess I'll just have to play against the npc's if I want to play one of the mii's.

He stated somewhere that it's because je doesn't want people being rude to each other

 

[Hero of the Winds]

In Pokemon you at least know the type you're against, and it's expected that you will have a counter attack or an unexpected attack. And it's also a strategy game versus a fighting game. Is there any fighting game that actually uses custom moves for competitive play?

You can have a fun to watch match in 2 minutes. If you have watched any online random brawl streams they can be fun to watch

I'm pretty sure you can use custom skills in Kid Icarus Uprising competitive play.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm pretty sure you can use custom skills in Kid Icarus Uprising competitive play.

You can use abilities in Kid Icarus. And it's not like they are custom to the point where you can fire a mega laser and have it bend 90 degrees, making it more unpredictable. The mega laser will always be a straight shot that you can dodge. The explosion can't be made small for more damage or larger for less damage, it's a set size and can be avoided. These are set abilities that you learn to react to, and don't have to guess if its going to act one way or another.

 

[LancerStaff]

I'm pretty sure you can use custom skills in Kid Icarus Uprising competitive play.

Sure can, but competitive KIU is somewhere between SSB and Pokemon. Competitive KIU focuses around LvD and teamwork, so each player will want to bring different types of weapons and powers. Counters are very strong in KIU, to the point where 1v1s aren't viable.

All-in-all, I'd say KIU is closer to Pokemon.

 

[TurnUp]

Sakurai mentions that the custom moves are not online because of balance in the DK Storm Punch post so there's that.

 

[LancerStaff]

You can use abilities in Kid Icarus. And it's not like they are custom to the point where you can fire a mega laser and have it bend 90 degrees, making it more unpredictable. The mega laser will always be a straight shot that you can dodge. The explosion can't be made small for more damage or larger for less damage, it's a set size and can be avoided. These are set abilities that you learn to react to, and don't have to guess if its going to act one way or another.

There's more guesswork in KIU, since it's not a matter of a Mega Laser bending, but what the power will even be. Powers come out instantly, by the way. You won't know if he has Invisible Shots or Black Hole 'til you're hit in a game of OHKOs.

 

[SuperMii3D]

I think you underestimate the number of people who would play as Hitler-Mii online vs randoms.

But ya I hope Miis are playable in For Glory just with a handful of defaults, it makes no sense to cut them entirely.

I think you absolutely overestimate the number of people that would use a Hitler Mii online. In all of my time playing Mario Kart 7/8 online, Ive never EVER seen a Hitler Mii. So Im sure there wouldnt be too many of those on Smash 4's online either. Also why would someone waster their time making an unamusing Hitler Mii when they can make some sort of oc.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai mentions that the custom moves are not online because of balance in the DK Storm Punch post so there's that.

https://38.media.tumblr.com/668016f81c6b43c680c5a54e26f63dc2/tumblr_nahinjxsKR1smssc0o1_500.png
here's the post

 

[laces]

Does anyone else find it discouraging to use miis and custom moves because you can't use them in anonymous matches? This is a mode I plan on using a lot (assuming the connectivity is competent) and the fact that I can't use these cool features kinda makes me not want to bother.

 

[Hero of the Winds]

Does anyone else find it discouraging to use miis and custom moves because you can't use them in anonymous matches? This is a mode I plan on using a lot (assuming the connectivity is competent) and the fact that I can't use these cool features kinda makes me not want to bother.

I'll still find them fun and try em out against CPUs. And maybe my friends might want to use them when we battle.

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

He stated somewhere that it's because je doesn't want people being rude to each other

The only people I'd think you could be rude to would be the people you know AKA friends. Which completely defeats the purpose of the argument. But oh well.

 

[EgeDal]

Does anyone else find it discouraging to use miis and custom moves because you can't use them in anonymous matches? This is a mode I plan on using a lot (assuming the connectivity is competent) and the fact that I can't use these cool features kinda makes me not want to bother.

Exactly.

 

[DevaAshera]

I'll probably be using Custom Moves when possible, such as Mario's Scorching Fludd..particularly then I'll likely be playing 'With Friends' more often then With Anyone.

I think you absolutely overestimate the number of people that would use a Hitler Mii online. In all of my time playing Mario Kart 7/8 online, Ive never EVER seen a Hitler Mii. So Im sure there wouldnt be too many of those on Smash 4's online either. Also why would someone waster their time making an unamusing Hitler Mii when they can make some sort of oc.

Doesn't mean there wouldn't be..more 'trolls' will likely play online in Super Smash Bros. then Mario Kart 8..also, Mario Kart 8 uses your default Mii while Smash Bros. will likely let you choose any Mii on your system.

I know there are people already creating Miis just for Super Smash Bros, since they're more noticeable in Smash Bros. then in Mario Kart, I don't recall anyone ever really making a Mii just for Mario Kart..

 

[LancerStaff]

I'll probably be using Custom Moves when possible, such as Mario's Scorching Fludd..particularly then I'll likely be playing 'With Friends' more often then With Anyone.


Doesn't mean there wouldn't be..more 'trolls' will likely play online in Super Smash Bros. then Mario Kart 8..also, Mario Kart 8 uses your default Mii while Smash Bros. will likely let you choose any Mii on your system.

I know there are people already creating Miis just for Super Smash Bros, since they're more noticeable in Smash Bros. then in Mario Kart, I don't recall anyone ever really making a Mii just for Mario Kart..

MK8 lets you use any Mii that's been favorited, as is the standard protocol for the Wii U.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I know Sakurai had said that we can't use custom moves online because it would disrupt the balance. We haven't seen all of the custom moves but I'm assuming some have already been deemed overpowered (by itself or in conjunction with another move) by the staff. We haven't had the chance to really dive deep into these custom moves but I hope our conclusion isn't the same as Sakurai.

Custom moves would be tons of fun online. Every person you play would use their character a little different because of custom moves. People would find new things a character could do with different move combinations. They look to be taken out of online but I they should be given a chance overall.

 

[SuperMii3D]

I'll probably be using Custom Moves when possible, such as Mario's Scorching Fludd..particularly then I'll likely be playing 'With Friends' more often then With Anyone.


Doesn't mean there wouldn't be..more 'trolls' will likely play online in Super Smash Bros. then Mario Kart 8..also, Mario Kart 8 uses your default Mii while Smash Bros. will likely let you choose any Mii on your system.

I know there are people already creating Miis just for Super Smash Bros, since they're more noticeable in Smash Bros. then in Mario Kart, I don't recall anyone ever really making a Mii just for Mario Kart..

Yeah, like I said there wouldnt be too many. Besides, why cant you just report them if they do use such a Mii?