So, Marth...

[Deleted member]

His grab range is crazy! And that's what I want to know about. I'm improving mine, and I can't seem to land a good grab from afar.

 

[BlueX]

Have you try perfect pivot? His grab range increases even more with this tech. If you turn around (or dash) then quickly grab you can grab your opponent from a further range.

 

[Delta Chae]

His grab range is slightly longer than the tongue in Yoshi's grab animation if that gives you a reference point. It's the longest grab range in the game that isn't disjointed (Such as Link's hookshot).

 

[AirFair]

pivot grabs are useful in chaingrabbing, but the spacing of a max distance grab is something you have to feel out, so just experiment a little. If you have 20xx, you can turn the hitboxes on and see the grab's one as well.

 

[Link24a]

You don't exactly "get good" at grabbing. It either whiffs or not. Yeah, dash grab and pivot grab have more range but by itselitself? No

 

[DeadPigeon]

Pivot grab doesn't have more range than a standing grab. That's because it is a standing grab.

 

[Link24a]

Pivot grab doesn't have more range than a standing grab. That's because it is a standing grab.

It at least does in later games

 

[DeadPigeon]

It at least does in later games

We're in the melee forums, all statements apply to melee only

 

[FE_Hector]

Try testing out your JC grabs when shadowboxing or something like that. If you get what's been sometimes referred to as Marth's "vacuum grab," you either maximized or got close to maximizing his grab range.

 

[Link24a]

We're in the melee forums, all statements apply to melee only

I was unsure. I thought it might be in Melee but was only sure about the others

 

[Paper Tiger]

You do indeed "get good" at grabbing. You learn to DD pivot grab approaches on reaction, CC grab Falcon's nair for example, and know when fair grab will connect and when it won't. Of course you get good at grabbing. It is a test of your spacing.

Please do not refer to pivoting as perfect pivoting in the Melee boards, a pivot grab is always "perfect."

 

[Potsandpans.bangbang]

Doesn't JC grabbing do essentially the same thing as pivot grab? Don't they both just turn what would be a dashing grab into his longer range standing grab? Cause I just JC all of my grabs, that way even if i mess up a pivot, I still do a standing grab and it sort of resets your dash so you don't stay in that slow run that happens when you mess up a DD

 

[Stride]

Have you try perfect pivot? His grab range increases even more with this tech. If you turn around (or dash) then quickly grab you can grab your opponent from a further range.

Pivoting just gives you a standing grab; it doesn't give you any more range.

It at least does in later games

The term "pivot grab" is used to refer to a different mechanic entirely in Brawl, Smash 4, and PM (PM also has Melee pivot grabs in addition to Brawl "pivot grabs", which makes the naming even more confusing).

Doesn't JC grabbing do essentially the same thing as pivot grab? Don't they both just turn what would be a dashing grab into his longer range standing grab? Cause I just JC all of my grabs, that way even if i mess up a pivot, I still do a standing grab and it sort of resets your dash so you don't stay in that slow run that happens when you mess up a DD

Dash grab has marginally longer range than standing grab, but comes out later and has more lag (which is why it's almost never, if ever, used intentionally).

When you pivot grab you stop in place, but when you jump cancel grab you retain your existing velocity and slide. This difference is really important, since jump cancel grabbing (while moving) gives you more range but moves you (and therefore your hurtbubble) further forwards, and vice-versa for pivot grabbing.

You can do one of 2 pseudo-option selects when pivot grabbing (not true option selects since only interact with you messing up your inputs); in both cases, if you execute perfectly you perform a normal pivot grab, but if you flub then the output is not as bad as the dash grab you get when you mess up a "normal" pivot grab:

One method is to input a jump on the same frame you input the turn, and then grab on the next frame (the frame of the turn itself) like normal. This way, if you're late on your grab input then you at least get a dash to jump cancel grab instead of a dash grab. Being late on the jump input used in this method also results in a dash to jump cancel grab, so long as the grab input isn't on the same frame (in that case you'd get a dash to jump).

The other method is to input the grab with Shield+A instead of Z. This way, so long as you time the shield input correctly then if you're late on the A button input you will shieldstop and delay the grab (without moving forwards; so in this respect it's better than the first method). This method has the issue that you have to release the stick to neutral within 2 frames of pivoting or else you roll on the 3rd frame; and also the issue that if you're late on the shield input (which causes you to dash forwards before shieldstopping), then inputting Shield+A on the same frame will result in a dash grab (if the A button input is at least 1 frame after the shield input, then you will dash forwards and shieldstop grab).

I can't recommend the shield method for pivot grabbing. Getting the true pivot grab with this method is extremely difficult, because of the need for the stick to return neutral within 2 frames of it being tilted enough to dash back (it's a physical limitation of the controller and the human body; I doubt it can be overcome); I have literally a <1% success rate with it (and I'm not even entirely sure if I've ever gotten it). Getting the dash forwards one frame to shield stop grab is easy to do consistently though, and while it is slower, you barely move forwards at all, so your spacing is still practically the same as it would be with a true pivot grab. As far as I'm aware (assuming that the true pivot grab is beyond the realm of human execution), this essentially forces you to delay you grab by at least 2 frames (one for the one frame of dash, and one for the one frame of shield) if you want a standing grab.

If you don't need to grab as quickly as possible, then this method is still usable. For each frame you dash forward you don't move very far, making this method more forgiving of bad timing since you don't run the risk of moving too far forwards (nor of dash grabbing). However, when speed is important (such as when chaingrabbing spacies), the wasted 2 or more frames are unacceptable.

Pivot shieldstop grabs can still be used if you deliberately want to delay your grab, but if you want to pivot grab as soon as possible then you should use the jump cancel grab method. Shieldstop grabs out of forwards movement (not out of a pivot) are also useful.