So I think I came up with an nice simple way to thank nintendo

[Mang0nation]

I was thinking that it was nice to so quickly agree for Nintendo to allow us to stream and we need some way to pay them back. What if VGBC and Clash Tournaments and any other streams, once in a while when there is downtime, play the Smash 4 trailer on stream? It would only take a few minutes each time, we would be thanking Nintendo by hyping up there next product, and I don't think people would be super upset about seeing the trailer.

Just an idea. I'm also posting this on r/smashbros.

 

[killazys]

inb4 Nintendo shuts down VGBC because they don't have the rights to play the Smash 4 trailer.

 

[Sedda]

I think a better way to show our appreciation is to edit together a bunch of EVO highlights and title it "For Nintendo" or something. It would show the passion of the community

 

[Sashimi]

I know Clash Tournaments played the smash 4 trailer at Impulse this year, along-side a trailer for EVO. I'm not sure if Nintendo would appreciate it, or get upset about it (if they're watching at all). I sure hope they don't mind us advertising for them.

 

[007-jake]

I think if they decide to do anything like showing the trailer, they should be sure to ask and get permission first from Nintendo. They may not recognize the difference between us advertising for them for free, and us advertising for ourselves to get more viewers and possibly more stream donations that Nintendo has nothing to do with. The greed is strong with corporations.

 

[Son of Slobodan]

Is this the generation of thanking companies for not ****ing us over? First with the PS4 used game policy, then xbone and now nintendo? Sorry, they don't deserve a bit of thanks, this was all the community's doing and we have nobody to thank but ourselves.

It's not like they changed their mind out of the goodness of their hearts, if we had said nothing and the evo organizers said nothing, we wouldn't even have had melee playable this year. It's one thing to ignore a passionate community that has kept a game alive for 12 years, its another to actually go out of their way to almost screw us over for no good reason.

 

[ph00tbag]

Is this the generation of thanking companies for not ****ing us over? First with the PS4 used game policy, then xbone and now nintendo? Sorry, they don't deserve a bit of thanks, this was all the community's doing and we have nobody to thank but ourselves.

It's not like they changed their mind out of the goodness of their hearts, if we had said nothing and the evo organizers said nothing, we wouldn't even have had melee playable this year. It's one thing to ignore a passionate community that has kept a game alive for 12 years, its another to actually go out of their way to almost screw us over for no good reason.

Entitled, much?

You don't own the rights to footage of Nintendo games. Strictly speaking, Nintendo owns all of that footage. The reason there is any dust-up at all is because Evo, a major economic force with the power to severely damage the viability of Nintendo's broadcasting rights, claims the rights to any footage they air. By allowing Evo to do this, Nintendo is making a pretty substantial concession in terms of profitability that they could claim rights to, all for fans who have been playing a game that's no longer in print (and thus has no profit value to Nintendo) on a system that's no longer in production. The question, "what does Nintendo actually get out of us?" is pretty damn valid in this case.

Basically, it's unclear whether we really deserved this, so it stands to reason, we need to make good on our claims that we're ultimately good for Nintendo. Promoting their products for free is a pretty cut and dry way of doing that.

 

[Son of Slobodan]

How is broadcasting one of their own games to an audience of 130000+ people not "promoting their products for free"? That's about as good as free publicity gets. There isn't a single other company who would pass up an opportunity like that. Hell, if you look at games like Amnesia, Let's Play Videos and streams single-handedly saved that game from falling into obscurity. It's a new era and it's Nintendo's responsibility to keep up with the times and embrace the streaming era.

 

[BTmoney]

Melee, GC controllers, and Cubes are not in production. Retail stores already bought them from Nintendo. Basically everything now is second hand (so the person who sells you their copy of melee is not giving a cut of the profit out to nintendo for selling their used melee to you) or third party (minus the few people who will buy a Wii just to play melee) so Nintendo is not making any money off of us.

All we did was say hey look, this is way better than everything they make now. And if you get on this, it's more money Nintendo won't make off more people.

But that's not to say melee doesn't make people more interested in Nintendo products. There's just no guarantee that if you keep playing their old games they don't make money off of you're going to buy their new stuff.

 

[EastCoastEddie]

I still don't see the point of thanking Nintendo for this, they are in dire need of a wake up call. They **** on us and probably all of competitive gaming when they wanted to pull Melee completely from Evo. We rallied time and time again and jumped through all the hoops to make this happen. Could Nintendo have stopped it in the end? Yes. But it was our efforts and passion that stopped them from doing so. We earned this hands down. I feel more thankful to the EVO staff, Esports, the FGC, and the competitive gaming scene at large for letting us be a part of the hypest event ever.

I would however be very thankful to them if they actually do something for this community. Such as make the next smash competitive, take our feedback into account, sponsor tournaments, attempt to communicate with this scene, etc. If they did this I would be very thankful. But all signs point to Nintendo having their head up their asses on this one. That being said, more community awareness and an attempt to communicate between both sides is definitely a good thing!

 

[ph00tbag]

I still don't see the point of thanking Nintendo for this, they are in dire need of a wake up call. They **** on us and probably all of competitive gaming when they wanted to pull Melee completely from Evo. We rallied time and time again and jumped through all the hoops to make this happen. Could Nintendo have stopped it in the end? Yes. But it was our efforts and passion that stopped them from doing so. We earned this hands down. I feel more thankful to the EVO staff, Esports, the FGC, and the competitive gaming scene at large for letting us be a part of the hypest event ever.

I would however be very thankful to them if they actually do something for this community. Such as make the next smash competitive, take our feedback into account, sponsor tournaments, attempt to communicate with this scene, etc. If they did this I would be very thankful. But all signs point to Nintendo having their head up their ***** on this one. That being said, more community awareness and an attempt to communicate between both sides is definitely a good thing!

You're still not listening. Nintendo literally forfeited the only means they have of profiting off of Melee for our sakes, and now you say that's the least they should be doing? At least if we'd been playing Brawl, we could play the free promotion card, but we're not promoting a game they are selling right now.

Look, I'm not trying to say Nintendo does a good job of partnering with their core audience. Indeed, the past few years, they've made no secret that they're viewing the core in proportion to it's size (which is pretty insignificant). What I'm saying is, if we as Nintendo's core audience truly believe our value is greater than the sum of our parts, then we'd damn well better show why we'd make a valuable partner, and the way you do that is by respecting them as a business entity, and demonstrating our understanding of their needs in a business context. It is not done by whining that we should be given expensive gifts for our dedication to a 12-year-old game that they don't make money off of anymore; that just makes us look selfish.

 

[EastCoastEddie]

You're still not listening. Nintendo literally forfeited the only means they have of profiting off of Melee for our sakes, and now you say that's the least they should be doing? At least if we'd been playing Brawl, we could play the free promotion card, but we're not promoting a game they are selling right now.

Look, I'm not trying to say Nintendo does a good job of partnering with their core audience. Indeed, the past few years, they've made no secret that they're viewing the core in proportion to it's size (which is pretty insignificant). What I'm saying is, if we as Nintendo's core audience truly believe our value is greater than the sum of our parts, then we'd damn well better show why we'd make a valuable partner, and the way you do that is by respecting them as a business entity, and demonstrating our understanding of their needs in a business context. It is not done by whining that we should be given expensive gifts for our dedication to a 12-year-old game that they don't make money off of anymore; that just makes us look selfish.

You are making some good points, and while I don't think this was a huge benefit to Nintendo, but the way you are posting you are making it seem like EVO was a huge disaster or detriment to their business. In an era of the iphone / mobile taking over the mobile market once dominated by them and no one buying a Wii-U, they could definitely benefit from some good publicity, which I think they received in the end.

And yes I do think that whining about being given gifts or whatever you're talking about is immature, but I haven't really seen anyone doing so nor was it my intent to support that line of thinking. I'm not saying they *should* do anything. I'm just saying I'd be thankful if they did more than just **** us over for a change (which come to think of it they did more than screw us over in this case, but only after we and the rest of the internet fist-****ed them.) I am advocating working closer with Nintendo, I'm not asking for hand outs from them, I and many others would absolutely love to hear if anyone at Nintendo even watched EVO and what their thoughts were.

As far as Nintendo actually investing in the community. This is a tricky area that a lot of burgeoning competitive communities seem to find themselves in where we can't really prove that if companies invest in us, they will see a certain level of ROI or that we are more valuable than the sum of our parts. Oh and I am grateful to Nintendo for a lot of things (such as bringing great games and joy to me and my friends) and I personally already did the polite thing and tweeted Nintendo and Nintendo of America thanking for overturning their decision to not ban Melee at EVO, but beyond that I don't think they do deserve some big "thank you" campaign, personally. Each and every one of us had more to do with Smash getting into EVO and briefly being the most viewed fighting game ever than Nintendo did. I'm not saying Nintendo owes us anything for that, but I don't think we owe Nintendo anything for that either since it was our hard work that got us there in the first place.

But yeah I think it would go a long way if Nintendo hired a community manager (like Combofiend is for Capcom and Seth Killian was) to bridge the gap (if that's even something they'd be interested in.

Sidenote: I know they are extremely protective of their intellectual property and I've heard they are pretty involved in Pokemon tournaments (I'd be curious to see if that's a good or bad thing from people that partake in said tournaments).

 

[ph00tbag]

YAs far as Nintendo actually investing in the community. This is a tricky area that a lot of burgeoning competitive communities seem to find themselves in where we can't really prove that if companies invest in us, they will see a certain level of ROI or that we are more valuable than the sum of our parts. Oh and I am grateful to Nintendo for a lot of things (such as bringing great games and joy to me and my friends) and I personally already did the polite thing and tweeted Nintendo and Nintendo of America thanking for overturning their decision to not ban Melee at EVO, but beyond that I don't think they do deserve some big "thank you" campaign, personally. Each and every one of us had more to do with Smash getting into EVO and briefly being the most viewed fighting game ever than Nintendo did. I'm not saying Nintendo owes us anything for that, but I don't think we owe Nintendo anything for that either since it was our hard work that got us there in the first place.

It's not just about being able to demonstrate that we can talk intelligently about business. It's about demonstrating that we can be effective spokepeople, and that we're largely on board with their goals as a business. When put in that perspective, it's pretty damn clear why they're hesitant at all. We're an offshoot of the FGC, which is a difficult community to work with on a good day, and we have an interpretation of their games that, within their worldview, is standoffish at best. It comes down to demonstrating that we are A: an inclusive, family friendly environment, and B: about having fun above all. Now I'm not saying we have to become a cartoony Super Mario World where our biggest worry is that Bowser will take us to his place and force us to watch Fawlty Towers reruns, and I would expect concessions on Nintendo's part along the lines of maybe actually listening to fans on the things that actually made them like the games in the first place, but while making these requests, I'd hope we're taking a look in the mirror and asking ourselves if we actually look all that attractive to Nintendo as partners, and not just as consumers.

And I don't think anyone is advocating raising money and doing some kind of thank you campaign. I think the idea is that we do some backscratching and promote the new Smash game a bit. It really doesn't cost us much (unless you're totally convinced it's going to be bad, and refuse to acknowledge that it may actually have redeeming qualities), so we may as well.

 

[nat pagle]

Melee, GC controllers, and Cubes are not in production. Retail stores already bought them from Nintendo. Basically everything now is second hand (so the person who sells you their copy of melee is not giving a cut of the profit out to nintendo for selling their used melee to you) or third party (minus the few people who will buy a Wii just to play melee) so Nintendo is not making any money off of us.

All we did was say hey look, this is way better than everything they make now. And if you get on this, it's more money Nintendo won't make off more people.

But that's not to say melee doesn't make people more interested in Nintendo products. There's just no guarantee that if you keep playing their old games they don't make money off of you're going to buy their new stuff.

Yes, Nintendo is interested in getting people to purchase their current 1st hand products, but they also have to make sure they don't incite large communities to orchestrate very public outcries when they attempt to restrict something like EVO. Because when the Melee community felt threatened and put down by Nintendo, they let Nintendo and anyone else looking at them know what was going on. Melee was trending on Twitter, Reddit's r/gaming had a post regarding it on the front page, and multiple sites were writing articles on it.

That being said, Nintendo needs to establish whether or not they want to pursue their own marketing goals via promotion of their current products that are directly profitable to them while risking public backlash and scrutiny, or whether they'll concede to the ones likely to react negatively/publicly to having a tournament, live stream, or something similar shut down by Nintendo to avoid future issues such as the removal of Melee at EVO.

I'd say the latter is the most likely to happen. Nintendo already backed off when the public started fuming over the banning Youtube videos initiative, and backing down from banning Melee also showed Nintendo's willingness to ease off the pressure when provoked. And it doesn't help that not many other companies are adopting the same type of aggressive defense towards their IP's as Nintendo employed.

 

[Johnknight1]

We thanked them for not shutting down the stream, and let them know that we won't let this happen.

Really, we shouldn't thank companies for being dictator-like with control over the image and use of their products that we all legally bought and legally use.

In the end, this actually turned out to be more good publicity than bad publicity, considering how Melee at Evo was a gigantic success on all levels.

Plus, we are literally advertising their games. If Nintendo was smart like Capcom is, Microsoft is, Sony is, WB Games is, the people making Mortal Kombat, and the people making Dive Kick are, they would sponsor Evo, in particular in regards to Melee. Seriously, they pay for sponsorship, and they could show commercials and have booths for their new games, including the 2 forthcoming smash games.

I mean, Melee there is enough Smash Bros. awareness of how awesome the game is at a high level (having one of the best American Idol winners entering helps; maybe Taylor Hicks could be an "ambassador" for Smash Brothers!), but advertising the next 2 entries of the game at Melee tournaments is honestly a genius thing to do, especially if Melee is at Evo next year.

 

[nat pagle]

We thanked them for not shutting down the stream, and let them know that we won't let this happen.

Really, we shouldn't thank companies for being dictator-like with control over the image and use of their products that we all legally bought and legally use.

Plus, we are literally advertising their games. If Nintendo was smart like Capcom is, Microsoft is, Sony is, WB Games is, the people making Mortal Kombat, and the people making Dive Kick are, they would sponsor Evo, in particular in regards to Melee. Seriously, they pay for sponsorship, and they could show commercials and have booths for their new games, including the 2 forthcoming smash games.

I mean, Melee there is enough Smash Bros. awareness of how awesome the game is at a high level (having one of the best American Idol winners entering helps; maybe Taylor Hicks could be an "ambassador" for Smash Brothers!), but advertising the next 2 entries of the game at Melee tournaments is honestly a genius thing to do, especially if Melee is at Evo next year.

I would say this is a good idea, but I feel like Nintendo tried to remove Melee from the EVO tournament in the first place because it gave Smash too much of a "competitive" feeling. Outright supporting an event like EVO would be a conflict of interest in Nintendo's case. They want Smash Bros. to be marketed as a casual friendly party game, not a competitive fighter.

I completely agree with the portion regarding how Nintendo should not be dictator-like with their IP's. Shutting down tournaments and being much too aggressive with the competitive scene? That's just not going to fly. No other company does that in such a way from what I have seen. Even if Nintendo has every right to do that kind of thing, it's just unwise from a business perspective and enrages people leading to public backlash. If the competitive scene is not what Nintendo wants, they can just ignore it completely and not acknowledge it. There's no need to forcefully shut it down and increasing people's awareness of it through high profile moves.

 

[Johnknight1]

I would say this is a good idea, but I feel like Nintendo tried to remove Melee from the EVO tournament in the first place because it gave Smash too much of a "competitive" feeling. Outright supporting an event like EVO would be a conflict of interest in Nintendo's case. They want Smash Bros. to be marketed as a casual friendly party game, not a competitive fighter.

Smash Bros. is marketed to be a fun party game. Anyone who watched the Evo stream of the Finals knew that there was definitely a party going on.

And it isn't a conflict of interest, considering nearly 140,000 people watched Mango capture the title, and probably at least 4 times that many people were following Melee at Evo to some extent.

Quite frankly, the fact that Nintendo hosted Brawl tournaments nationwide with GameStop (in which Mew2King came in 2nd there; he came in what, tied for 5th at Evo???) shows that they aren't anti-competitive; they just don't want people making money off their games. And you know what=??? They're kinda sorta right, but their approach is dead wrong. If they really want to make money off this, just say "hey, if you want to stream this, sell the game in this way or that way;" that or just outright sponsor the event.

I mean, Capcom had to have made BANKKKKKK by promoting Evo and sponsoring UMvC3 and SFIV. I mean, after that Grand Finals of UMvC3 and one man single handily wrecking everything, I think a few hundred people probably went out and bought that game after that. I know I want to after seeing just how incredible Justin Wong played (OUT OF NOWHERE!!!), and how mad money hype that was.

 

[nat pagle]

Quite frankly, the fact that Nintendo hosted Brawl tournaments nationwide with GameStop (in which Mew2King came in 2nd there; he came in what, tied for 5th at Evo???) shows that they aren't anti-competitive; they just don't want people making money off their games. And you know what=??? They're kinda sorta right, but their approach is dead wrong. If they really want to make money off this, just say "hey, if you want to stream this, sell the game in this way or that way;" that or just outright sponsor the event.

Hm, I looked through a few articles on the whole EVO debacle and it sounds like Nintendo's motives weren't necessarily clear. But the majority theorize that money was the biggest factor. Although, after Sakurai's interview where he stated he's not very concerned with the competitive scene, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo's edgy about losing their product's control to competitive players. And it doesn't help they wanted Melee gone entirely EVO 2013.

As for hosting tournaments with Gamestop nationwide, I really doubt they meant it to be supportive of the competitive scene. Their actions regarding EVO, adding tripping into Brawl, and making Brawl less competitive was indication enough IMO they weren't being supportive of the competitive community. Yes, Sakurai is removing tripping, but it doesn't sound like he cares about the competitive scene.

But hey, I could be completely wrong here. After all, Nintendo tried to ban all Youtube videos that made money off of their IP's. What kind of kneejerk stunt is that?