Smash Wii U Smash Bros. Attack Speed Comparison - Wii U vs Melee vs Brawl Video

[MugenLord]

There was an interesting video that was uploaded a few days ago. This doesn't mean anything just speculation so take this for what its worth until we actually see what the final build has to offer.

 

[Raijinken]

Interesting for speculation, but aside from the obvious "Not the final build" arguments, it's worth noting that we don't know if these animations can be acted out of, and the other points raised by the video.

 

[Swedish_Otaku]

This doesn't seem to do much honestly. Too many variables and it's different from character to characters. Like landing lag is suppose to be fastest in Melee and slowest in 4, but in this test with Bowser it's the opposite. Makes no sense.

I guess it's still interesting but nothing we should care about it. Just wait until the game is out. And even if it's a lot slower... it's still Smash. Just take the game as it is and play in that world and make the best of it. I hate how people focus so much on this and refuse to enjoy other games than Melee... It's still Smash.

 

[KokiriKory]

That was a pretty well done video, but it's hard to use this as any kind of true reference until we can get our hands on the real game.

 

[Renji64]

This video isn't really accurate as mutiple said on reddit.

 

[MrPanic]

Yeah, I like the effort he put in to this, but I can spot a few unfair comparisons right away. Also using the frame data of individual characters to determine the speed of the game seems like a far stretch, there are way more factors that determine how fast the game overall is gonna be.

I don't think there's any use for the kind of videos till you can record your own footage of smash 4. It was a entertaining vid though.

 

[z00ted]

End of this video w/ the "pppphhhh" sound effect was the best part.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

this video is stupid and means almost nothing.

 

[Senario]

So basically this video completely misses the concept of "Speed" In smash bros. It isn't how fast moves finish up but how much endlag is attached to the end of the move before you can act again.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

So basically this video completely misses the concept of "Speed" In smash bros. It isn't how fast moves finish up but how much endlag is attached to the end of the move before you can act again.

It seems like it was done by a noob melee purist and not a professional player who actually understands what speed means in smash.

 

[Senario]

It seems like it was done by a noob melee purist and not a professional player who actually understands what speed means in smash.

I wouldn't say "noob melee purist" as that really isn't what is happening here I think. He literally says nothing about melee specifically and compares all three games. It is this kind of attitude that makes me have a distaste for so called "Melee purists" and by the same token extreme fans of brawl.

This video simply is somebody who is not outwardly part of any group but wanted to analyze the game. However, unlike any experienced smash player he doesn't understand the concept of "speed" in regards to smash therefore the footage is dodgy at best.

I highly suggest you not just target melee players because honestly that is a jerk move. I don't see any brawl player hate anymore. Nobody cares. However Melee hate is all too common and really makes me think the smash 4 community will turn out badly.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I wouldn't say "noob melee purist" as that really isn't what is happening here I think. He literally says nothing about melee specifically and compares all three games. It is this kind of attitude that makes me have a distaste for so called "Melee purists" and by the same token extreme fans of brawl.

This video simply is somebody who is not outwardly part of any group but wanted to analyze the game. However, unlike any experienced smash player he doesn't understand the concept of "speed" in regards to smash therefore the footage is dodgy at best.

I highly suggest you not just target melee players because honestly that is a jerk move. I don't see any brawl player hate anymore. Nobody cares. However Melee hate is all too common and really makes me think the smash 4 community will turn out badly.

i just said it seems "like" and i was not targeting melee fan in its self just the un educated ones. cuz there are alot.
Besides man if there is hate for it there also twice as much great too it.
Hmm that would be a good slogan for Nintendo in general Xd.

 

[Senario]

i just said it seems "like" and i was not targeting melee fan in its self just the un educated ones. cuz there are alot.
Besides man if there is hate for it there also twice as much great too it.
Hmm that would be a good slogan for Nintendo in general Xd.

Sometimes. Though honestly I wouldn't say he is part of any group besides a smash player that doesn't know what makes a fast game. Still bad wording regardless of your backtracking =/.

And not all the time is hate = 2x good stuff lol. Not many are gonna say Tales of Symphonia 2/Sticker star/Other M/Resident Evil 6/and other similar disappointment games have twice as much good stuff as the amount of hate they get lol. Some of them are totally deserving of it.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Sometimes. Though honestly I wouldn't say he is part of any group besides a smash player that doesn't know what makes a fast game. Still bad wording regardless of your backtracking =/.

And not all the time is hate = 2x good stuff lol. Not many are gonna say Tales of Symphonia 2/Sticker star/Other M/Resident Evil 6/and other similar disappointment games have twice as much good stuff as the amount of hate they get lol. Some of them are totally deserving of it.

ah sorry as long as you under stand i hade no ill intentions.
Also i thought tales of symphonia 2 was better than the first Xd. Emile/Ratatosk was awesome.

 

[Ganreizu]

...I was expecting a comparison of aerial ending lag, not length of the move itself, which means absolutely nothing. Plus the fact that aerial landing lag being too long was fixed since the lucina/robin build shown in the reveal trailer, this video isn't really teaching anyone anything.

 

[Khao]

If you're just comparing how long each animation lasts, then Melee and Brawl are kind of the exact same thing.

Not much to see here, it's still a pretty interesting comparison, but it doesn't really say anything about the overall speed of the game.

 

[shapular]

I wouldn't say "noob melee purist" as that really isn't what is happening here I think. He literally says nothing about melee specifically and compares all three games. It is this kind of attitude that makes me have a distaste for so called "Melee purists" and by the same token extreme fans of brawl.

This video simply is somebody who is not outwardly part of any group but wanted to analyze the game. However, unlike any experienced smash player he doesn't understand the concept of "speed" in regards to smash therefore the footage is dodgy at best.

I highly suggest you not just target melee players because honestly that is a jerk move. I don't see any brawl player hate anymore. Nobody cares. However Melee hate is all too common and really makes me think the smash 4 community will turn out badly.

You're right, hate is a sign of a cancerous community. Just look at the Melee community bashing Brawl for years and how cancerous they are now. However, there will be no need for Melee bashing after Smash 4 comes out since Melee will be completely irrelevant.

 

[Senario]

You're right, hate is a sign of a cancerous community. Just look at the Melee community bashing Brawl for years and how cancerous they are now. However, there will be no need for Melee bashing after Smash 4 comes out since Melee will be completely irrelevant.

Lol can't tell if serious or just trolling. Either way I don't think the melee community wanted to bash brawl nor did they. They experimented for a long time and when it didn't pan out many simply left or went back to the melee scene because brawl did not support how they played.

If I was a big horror game fan and played older resident evils what do you think my reaction would be to resident evil 5-6 where it isn't really a horror game and more of an action game? Sure it is more accessible to a wider demographic but in the process it lost what made the earlier games preferable to my likes in videogames.

In short you seem no better than the so called "Melee fans" you hate on.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Lol can't tell if serious or just trolling. Either way I don't think the melee community wanted to bash brawl nor did they. They experimented for a long time and when it didn't pan out many simply left or went back to the melee scene because brawl did not support how they played.

If I was a big horror game fan and played older resident evils what do you think my reaction would be to resident evil 5-6 where it isn't really a horror game and more of an action game? Sure it is more accessible to a wider demographic but in the process it lost what made the earlier games preferable to my likes in videogames.

In short you seem no better than the so called "Melee fans" you hate on.

Revelations :D (im not making a point don't worry)

 

[shapular]

Lol can't tell if serious or just trolling. Either way I don't think the melee community wanted to bash brawl nor did they. They experimented for a long time and when it didn't pan out many simply left or went back to the melee scene because brawl did not support how they played.

If I was a big horror game fan and played older resident evils what do you think my reaction would be to resident evil 5-6 where it isn't really a horror game and more of an action game? Sure it is more accessible to a wider demographic but in the process it lost what made the earlier games preferable to my likes in videogames.

In short you seem no better than the so called "Melee fans" you hate on.

You've proven yourself many times to be one of the cancerous trolls, so I don't think this post warrants a real response.

 

[mario123007]

Nice compare of this video, and yes, this means nothing, I think this game will make both casual and competitve players happy.

 

[Ghoti]

I like that this person dedicated time to evaluating how long each attack lasts, but he's testing on an old demo (which is slower than the more recent demo).

An evaluation would be better once it's released. When we have it, we can evaluate all characters in the final game rather than a demo.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Can we not go there with the vs thing?

Calling them "Cancerous Melee Purists" is pretty much stooping to the level your calling them out on.

You want some form of revenge. Just let it go and try to bring the community together.

Also that video is pointless if it's comparing a demo.

 

[TewnLeenk]

I mean, good job to the guy who made this video. Looks like it took a lot of work.

But this comparison is invalid until we play the final build of Smash4.

 

[ferioku]

Can we not go there with the vs thing?

Calling them "Cancerous Melee Purists" is pretty much stooping to the level your calling them out on.

You want some form of revenge. Just let it go and try to bring the community together.

Also that video is pointless if it's comparing a demo.

Yup, by the looks of things, the game has changed in the newest videos.

 

[pants name guy]

A few things: first off, those are thirtieth-of-a-second frames, not "milliseconds." Second, the second hit of Link's side smash can be timed differently within a very large window depending on when you press A. The smash 4 footage heavily delayed the second hit. Also, the frame readings aren't perfectly accurate because the game goes into freeze-frames and extends the duration of a move when it hits something. Many of the clips showed a character getting hit by the move in one game but not the other two. One more thing: we don't know whether many of those clips from trailers were from the same build of the game. This doesn't exactly discredit anything, I just wanted to throw it out there. I don't think we can use this video to really determine anything. Good try, though.

 

[Renji64]

You're right, hate is a sign of a cancerous community. Just look at the Melee community bashing Brawl for years and how cancerous they are now. However, there will be no need for Melee bashing after Smash 4 comes out since Melee will be completely irrelevant.

Brawl guys said the same thing last time which game is thriving right now? It sure it isn't brawl. The melee community is great.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Brawl guys said the same thing last time which game is thriving right now? It sure it isn't brawl. The melee community is great.

Drop it, we're not going there.

 

[Senario]

Drop it, we're not going there.

At the very least you cover both sides and not just one side. People attacking brawl are just as bad as all the people attacking melee. It really doesn't matter who started it. (and honestly it is half the reason I don't take things too seriously on smash boards)

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Guy uses a completely different attack in one of the Marth boxes when timing the fsmash.

Compares links fsmash despite the fact you can hold it and the Smash 4 box clearly holds it.

Doesn't realize that the duration of an attack animation means nothing.

Video is useless and I hope the guy gets his wasted time back.

...I was expecting a comparison of aerial ending lag, not length of the move itself, which means absolutely nothing. Plus the fact that aerial landing lag being too long was fixed since the lucina/robin build shown in the reveal trailer, this video isn't really teaching anyone anything.

First of all, there is no issue with "landing lag" in Smash 4 to begin with. Second of all, aside from less than a handful of people (none of them high-profile players as far as I know) and their anecdotes on how things "feel" or look, what proof at all do you have that anything was changed about landing lag?

Landing lag is not some individual digit they slide up and down to effect everyone, every single move on every single character has varying amounts of landing lag, it's called risk:reward and every fighting game has it.

Reducing the landing lag across the board for every single move would have overpowering effects on many abilities observed, and turning it up would make certain abilities too slow to be worth considering.

I really wish people would stop speaking so thoughtlessly about "landing lag" like it's as simple as turning the dial, and I'm glad they aren't developing the game.

 

[Ganreizu]

First of all, there is no issue with "landing lag" in Smash 4 to begin with.

Invitational players and commentators disagree.

what proof at all do you have that anything was changed about landing lag?

I have an antelope for a brother.

Landing lag is not some individual digit they slide up and down to effect everyone, every single move on every single character has varying amounts of landing lag, it's called risk:reward and every fighting game has it.

I know how it works thanks.

Reducing the landing lag across the board for every single move would have overpowering effects on many abilities observed, and turning it up would make certain abilities too slow to be worth considering.

Probably.

I really wish people would stop speaking so thoughtlessly about "landing lag" like it's as simple as turning the dial, and I'm glad they aren't developing the game.

I have only seen you in this forum a few times so far and i really wish people would avoid confronting everyone so mindlessly as if it's an addiction, and i'm glad i know how to deal with you already.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Invitational players and commentators disagree.



I have an antelope for a brother.



I know how it works thanks.



Probably.



I have only seen you in this forum a few times so far and i really wish people would avoid confronting everyone so mindlessly as if it's an addiction, and i'm glad i know how to deal with you already.

So what I take from this is you are incapable of forming your own opinion, and you've 'seen' me around the forum and know how to 'deal' with me.

For the record, the best way to deal with me would be not to spread false information and present arguments in an informative style that doesn't make you seem like a Melee purist player who has no inkling about the other games other than what they read.

Either way, both not very spectacular accomplishments nor good arguments.

 

[Dr. Dobis]

landing lag is one thing, but how about giving the player the ability to speed up the lag if they make a precise control input? nobody is forced to do it. I'm really hoping L-Canceling comes back

 

[Deleted member 245254]

landing lag is one thing, but how about giving the player the ability to speed up the lag if they make a precise control input? nobody is forced to do it. I'm really hoping L-Canceling comes back

Is this a troll?

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Lol @ Yoshi's Utilt

 

[shapular]

Invitational players and commentators disagree.

Funnily enough, all Melee players. Couldn't possibly be biased.

landing lag is one thing, but how about giving the player the ability to speed up the lag if they make a precise control input? nobody is forced to do it. I'm really hoping L-Canceling comes back

This is the absolute worst way to do it. If you think landing lag should be reduced, then reduce landing lag. "Nobdy is forced to do it"? As if anybody would want to not do it. There'd be no point. Players would effectively be forced to do it because everybody else would be doing it. They'd have to to keep up.

The better way to do it, imo, if not reducing landing lag outright, would be to put a generous but not excessive amount of auto-cancel frames at the end of certain aerials. That way, it'd take real skill and situational timing to reduce your landing lag, and it'd still leave you open for a punish if you mistimed it. It'd keep some risk vs. reward elements in the aerial game. That said, I have no idea if it's a good idea at all, and we really don't know if landing lag on aerials needs to be reduced to keep the aerial game viable.

 

[Dr. Dobis]

Yo, I use sheik in melee, and almost never L-cancel because it isnt that important. There are some moves however that can really benefit from it, like Links down air and ganons down air. Both of these moves were almost unusable in brawl because of the landing lag attach with their "auto-cancel" feature. All of Ike's aerials were pretty laggy as well and really would've benefit from a l-cancel feature.

Is this a troll?

Sorry, I'm new to this forum and im not sure if talking about advanced techniques is "trolling" or if thats just anything you don't agree with. Brawl has techs too! You press L a few frames before you hit the ground or a wall and bounce right back up. You essentially L-Cancel your getting up animation. L-canceling aerials is the exact same principle.

 

[Senario]

Funnily enough, all Melee players. Couldn't possibly be biased.

This is the absolute worst way to do it. If you think landing lag should be reduced, then reduce landing lag. "Nobdy is forced to do it"? As if anybody would want to not do it. There'd be no point. Players would effectively be forced to do it because everybody else would be doing it. They'd have to to keep up.

The better way to do it, imo, if not reducing landing lag outright, would be to put a generous but not excessive amount of auto-cancel frames at the end of certain aerials. That way, it'd take real skill and situational timing to reduce your landing lag, and it'd still leave you open for a punish if you mistimed it. It'd keep some risk vs. reward elements in the aerial game. That said, I have no idea if it's a good idea at all, and we really don't know if landing lag on aerials needs to be reduced to keep the aerial game viable.

The funny thing is your suggestion of auto cancelling and timing as a basis of skill also applies to L cancelling because the timing is different based on positioning, falling speed, and whether or not you hit a shield or person.

Honestly you just seem like a melee hater. The game had good qualities like low landing lag for moves. The best option would now be to decrease landing lag across the board not to do plain L cancelling or your suggestion which essentially is the same thing but worse. Try going back to melee for a bit and L cancelling. You will realize that it takes a lot of skill to consistently do in a real game.

 

[shapular]

Yo, I use sheik in melee, and almost never L-cancel because it isnt that important.

Then you're not playing good players.

The funny thing is your suggestion of auto cancelling and timing as a basis of skill also applies to L cancelling because the timing is different based on positioning, falling speed, and whether or not you hit a shield or person.

Honestly you just seem like a melee hater. The game had good qualities like low landing lag for moves. The best option would now be to decrease landing lag across the board not to do plain L cancelling or your suggestion which essentially is the same thing but worse. Try going back to melee for a bit and L cancelling. You will realize that it takes a lot of skill to consistently do in a real game.

The timing is always "within seven frames before hitting the ground" (or however many frames it is), and has nothing to do with what attack you used or when you used it. The only thing that changes it is hitting a person or shield, but that's pretty much a universal adjustment.

I do hate on Melee sometimes, but I actually like Melee, just not as much as Brawl. I play it regularly and can definitely L-cancel consistently. It doesn't really take a lot of skill, just a bit of practice and muscle memory. It's not something you think about doing most of the time.

 

[Dr. Dobis]

Then you're not playing good players.

Ouch! I mean, I don't go to tournaments or anything, but yeah I play with my friends and we're moderately good players.
I'm sure if I played Mango I'd get 4 stocked, but smash is about fun. And being able to L-cancel Ganon's thunder stomp is a lot of fun!