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Smash 64 Philosophy

Yobolight

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
1,126
The Great Dilemmas of Smash 64

Play style:
Radical Camping vs. Balanced Approach
This is the classic dilemma of initiating a camping arms race. No one wants to approach in this situation and the question is do you break the camp-fest or wait out your opponent? This problem is admittedly exacerbated on Hyrule.

Matchup based play vs. Mindgames based play
There are certain traditional methods to play to against certain characters. The dilemma is that your opponent more likely than not knows this method. Do you go for it anyway knowing that it is the way to play it or do you attempt to base your play around anticipating the reaction of your opponent expecting one to play the matchup traditionally?

This dilemma leads to the next dilemma; do you employ the gimmick factor?
The “gimmicks” is the moves that are theoretically less than useful, but can be used to catch an opponent off guard. Examples include all Kirby’s b moves, Ness’s PK Fire, Pikachu’s jolt, Falcon Kick, and Jiggly’s Sing. It is really a risk reward dilemma for a smash player.

Mutual Suicide?
When you are up a stock but have a relatively high damage percent and are given the opportunity to go for a suicide gimp on you opponent thereby increasing the margin of your lead, do you take it or do you play it safe in the hope that you will take the stock and continue to fight on with the same stock.

Combos:
Sending Opponents off the Ledge vs. Continuing the Combo
I often find myself with two options in a combo. Do I send my opponent of the ledge at non-KO percentage and adjust to edge guard mode or do I continue the combo with the possibility that the opponent will DI out or risk a technical error on the way to a KO?

Stages:
Dream Land vs. Hyrule
Which stage is truly the best neutral?

Kongo Jungle vs. No Congo Jungle
Is the stage legit?

Peaches Castle vs. No Peaches Castle
Is the stage legit?

Saffron City vs. No Saffron City
Is the stage legit?

Characters:
To Pikachu vs. Not to Pikachu
Pikachu is the best character in the game. How do you respond to this fact? Do you make the tier list you master or do you attempt to overcome it?

There maybe more that I will add.
 

kys

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
660
Location
World Traveler
I'm not going to address everything.

Combos: Depends on the character. Pika? I'll go for the sure kill. Ness? Get him off the stage.

Stages: Congo is the best neutral because it's the most balanced stage in the game. Hyrule should be banned or a counterpick because of the tornados. Peaches Castle is legit. The bumper can be annoying sometimes, but it's a decent stage.

Saffron has helipad camping and pokemon. I love the stage, but BANNED.

The tier list is only for high-level play, high-level play which only applies to a handful of people who play the game today. Don't worry about the tier list. Besides, smash 64 has really good balance.

On a side note, there is a tendency to inject too much personal experience into tier lists. Those with a higher skill level have a better idea of how the characters play at a tier list level, and thus have slightly more influential and believable opinions. That's the point.

Saying, "My Samus did really well against your Pika, so yeah Samus for high tier" is stupid.
 

B Link

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
1,579
Location
Toronto, Ontario
The Great Dilemmas of Smash 64

Play style:
Radical Camping vs. Balanced Approach
This is the classic dilemma of initiating a camping arms race. No one wants to approach in this situation and the question is do you break the camp-fest or wait out your opponent? This problem is admittedly exacerbated on Hyrule.
On Hyrule:

For the most part, if you want to win you'll 'wait out your opponent.' If your opponent is good and camps effectively, and you lack the high level ability to approach w/o severe punishment, you need to fight fire with fire.

'Breaking the camp-fest' is only for unusually good players. If a bad player tries to break the camp-fest, it can get ugly for them.
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
'Breaking the camp-fest' is only for unusually good players.
So are you saying that at high-level play, one player could break up the camping of another player of around equal skill, while this won't happen on lower level play? Or that one player needs to be significantly better than the other one regardless of how good both players are?
 

B Link

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
1,579
Location
Toronto, Ontario
So are you saying that at high-level play, one player could break up the camping of another player of around equal skill, while this won't happen on lower level play? Or that one player needs to be significantly better than the other one regardless of how good both players are?
Yeah I wasn't specific enough, here's my (permanent atm) stance:

A player needs to be good in order to approach and then win against an opponent who utilizes camping effectively.
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
"permanent atm"... seems paradoxical, lol

So I guess you're agreeing with the first one. I just wanted to make sure. I don't really have anything to say then, or rather I can't, because I can't really make claims about lower level play anymore.
 

Yobolight

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
1,126
I don't really have anything to say then, or rather I can't, because I can't really make claims about lower level play anymore.
Golly, Star King is sooo good at Smash 64 he doesn't even remember low level play anymore.
 

XKCP

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
418
Location
Baton Rouge, LA
Hey guys, what about items vs no items? :troll:


what is the general stance on kamikaze kills? whenever my friends do them to me i tell them that they fight with no honour, but in reality i don't really care.
Kamikaze is totally legit. More people complain to me if I ledgehog rather than go suicidal on them.
 

Battlecow

Play to Win
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
8,740
Location
Chicago
the common kamikaze kills (yoshi neutral b, kirby swallow, DK cargo hold) simply don't work with decent mashing. At high level play you shouldn't do it, at mid level play/when you think mashing is a weakness of your opponent, go for it if you think you've got a good shot.

Same with most gimmicks tbh.
 

Yobolight

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
1,126
the common kamikaze kills (yoshi neutral b, kirby swallow, DK cargo hold) simply don't work with decent mashing. At high level play you shouldn't do it, at mid level play/when you think mashing is a weakness of your opponent, go for it if you think you've got a good shot.

Same with most gimmicks tbh.
A better example of a kamikaze kill that I am talking about like a lot of dairs or Yoshi using his second jump over the ledge to kill and he won't get back.
 

Battlecow

Play to Win
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
8,740
Location
Chicago
the yoshi one can be legit, but rarely, I would say. You're usually better off getting back and edgeguarding; the exception would be a gross percentage difference or on the final stock/with a comfortable stock lead.

the mario/luigi dair kills are almost never suicidal. In fact, most dair kills aren't... I've ff dair'd with falcon before for a suicide kill, but that was more because I wasn't good at not fastfalling than anything else.
 

Frogles

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Messages
536
Location
kuz's house
the only time i kamikaze is on the last stock when i can get the kill by normal edgeguarding anyway. i don't find it worth it unless it can eliminate somebody in teams.
 

Yobolight

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
1,126
the yoshi one can be legit, but rarely, I would say. You're usually better off getting back and edgeguarding; the exception would be a gross percentage difference or on the final stock/with a comfortable stock lead.

the mario/luigi dair kills are almost never suicidal. In fact, most dair kills aren't... I've ff dair'd with falcon before for a suicide kill, but that was more because I wasn't good at not fastfalling than anything else.

Mario and Luigi I know don't have to suicide to get the kill because of crazy vertical recovery, but Jigglypuff seems to be a character where dair -> suicide kill would be an option.
 

Battlecow

Play to Win
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
8,740
Location
Chicago
ehhhhh

I don't like suicide dair edgeguards with jiggs. to get you suicide-low, it'd have to be on like pikachu or someone else with at least a decent vertical recovery, and the amount of dair it takes to get them down there seems pretty DI-escapable.
 
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