Smash 3DS Sm4sh's "Ups-and-Downs" ... plus I need help

[KaiRogers17]

Okay, so I'll address the "Ups-and-Downs" portion shortly, but for now:

1: I'm sure you all know of the lethal "Error" floating about the E-Shop's digital copies, and a few hard copies, when you complete Classic/All-Star Modes? This appeared when I unlocked Falco, but it hasn't had issues since I simply turned my game back on (hard copy), and I've made ALOT of progress lately. Should I still be concerned?

# 2 kinda goes with "Ups-and-Downs" section:

2: Is it me, or did we get a crapton of duplicated characters? Here's a list of whom I think are duped (OPINIONATED):

• Ganondorf - Been that way since Melee... we even call him "Falcondorf" now... (I understand there are differences, but he IS the Demon King, at least his OoT or TP sword?
• Falco - Like Falcondorf again, even the FS isn't any different... HE'S A PILOT, USE THE ARWING!

And here's where it gets interesting... v.v

• Dr. Mario - ... do I even need to address this one...? Didn't Sakurai say "No Clones"? (I admit, I prefer Dr. Mario over Mario because of the Dair and FLUDD... but really?
• Dark Pit - ... This is another serious problem I'm having with... I understand characters were decided at the beginning, but they could have decided on other things at that moment too, or at the very frickin' least make Dark Pit distinguishable from Pit...
• Lucina - As far as gameplay with this one goes, I feel no difference but a weaker Marth... this... this just...

And you know what bothers me most about those three "interesting" dupes? The fact that, in the same moment in time, Sakurai agreed on "Pac-Man", "Duck-Hunt", "Little Mac" AND "Shulk" (not to mention the Miis), so there really and ABSOLUTELY is NO excuse to have not thought of something from another series or even main-games. As much as I hate it, I'd be happier with Ridley, and that's not sarcasm...

Conclusion Over Duped Characters: There's no excuse because they included completely unexpected characters (Duck-Hunt? Who frickin' thinks of THAT from a game so long ago? That had to have been a moment in the office where someone made a joke about Duck-Hunt-Dog or some crap, and they all said "Omg, yeah!"... plus I don't see a remake/sequel anytime soon...).
If they can think of Duck-Hunt at that time, I'm sure they can think of a different moveset for Dark Pit (because if they'll do that, why not another slot for Dark Link? Diff voice, diff taunts, maybe some "Multiple Dark Links" attack, idk, but Dark Pit's whole... thing just irks me...


Now that that's over: Negativities


I've found some things I don't much care for... and it's my opinion I'm entitled to voice. Please respect this:

1: Has anyone even found Reggie in this game? You know, CEO of NoA? ... He's in it, and I hate it so much... so damn much... (real-world-reference JUST because of the stupid meme...)

2: Seriously limited options: Either I get a flood of items or none at all... wtf man... and they added the music and sound testing instead? And no D-Pad control option... double-press for dashing? Smash attacks would be easy, albeit painful after hours of play, but the option's availability is the point.

3: Xenoblade Chronicles? One game and we get Shulk? At least Robin comes from main-game-series "Fire Emblem."

4: Certain mechanics feel exactly like Brawl and not "faster than Brawl" like Sakurai stated a while back... feels unfair most times...

5: Omfg speaking of unfair, is it me or is there a helluva lot more "wind" based items, PKMN, and trophies? Cuz screw that crap, I hated Kyogre in Brawl! "More-Fair" isn't "Oh yeah, let's add the Gust Bellows so someone can die at 0% three times in a row." Or: "How about the Beetle? You'll have maybe 5% for getting hit by it, but still OHKOes, that sounds fair!"
Don't get me wrong, I love Kyogre and Zelda, but different things could have been done... Beetle drops a bomb? Gust Bellows not at all? Kyogre does Sheer Cold? (I'm assuming that would still OHKO, but you'd feel awesome for being destroyed by Kyogre with absolute ice instead of: "I'll just act like Master Hand here for a whole minute and just shove you off the stage and you can't do anything about it... sorry, that's how I was programmed."

6: Call me a Zelda Fanboy for a minute, just for a minute, because we have... 3... 4... oh Idk, at the least 8 Mario characters not including the Koopalings (but I do) and Yoshi and DK... (which again, I do... they wouldn't be here if not for Mario, even DK wouldn't exist). And we've had NO additions to the Zelda franchise for two iterations now (I'd rather consider Toon Link and Young Link the same... Toon Link IS Young Link, while Young Link is NOT Toon Link, catch my drift?).
Ghirahim, Demise (Better Ganondorf, or alt), Zant, and if they went as far as Duck Hunt, what about Onox or Veran? 5 compared to 16 is rediculous.

7: No Event Mode... uhh, wat? Target Smash replaced by... idk that Angry Birds sh**... and Trophy Shop? ... okay I admit that's cool.

8: I'm feeling totally (too early for the "O" word just yet)... oh what's the other word? ... Weak? Underwhelming? I feel like crap going against Palutena (dat Up Smash... dat Reflector, dat counter...). But nothing compares to Villager and Little Mac...

• Villager - Feels broken as hell. He may as well be a god with his wings, having two items at once and can switch at will, ABSORBING TARGETED FS??? Absolutely not, Sakurai, why? Airgame is great as well as his ground attacks... All I see is a bloodthirsty smile (but dat yellow costume... look of death).
• Little Mac - I knew from the advert that this would be bad. Sure, aerial sucks, but even for Kirby, Meta Knight, and Pit, you have to land sooner or later, right? Plus, he could just KO you normally and then OHKO with his, well, "KO" move when you respawn... it's happened to me already... and I despise his Power Armor... Too small, too fast, and WAAAAYYYY too powerful for ANY amount of crappy airgame to make up for it!

I think that does it for the bad stuff for me that ruins this experience...


Positives

1: 49 is the magic number, and while more in this iteration compared to previous ones are "dupes", but I love having to struggle to see who I want to use ^^ I like how many are on the screen, and possible-DLC Characters to come? Oh Boy!

2: I didn't think they'd put the X and Y Pokemon in this game, tbh. Even the X and Y Trainer trophy descrip. is hinting toward "It may be too soon" kind of feeling. I like having Victini and Eevee, who finally gets the spotlight (was wondering about eeveelutions).

3: Outstanding 3D play! They took time into making sure the game doesn't drop in FPS when you're randomly turning up the 3D bar all the way. I love it! XD

4: Extensive trophies. I like to read them all and learn more, and on these ones for some reason, it feels like Nintendo is... "Speaking" to me personally. Makes me feel good inside, lol.

5: Customizable Characters... just... wow!

6: I'm excited to see GOOD alt costumes now, not something like random colors on EVERY character, at least Link has Deity Link, Greninja with Shiny, Duck Hunt has a hilarious Dalmatian costume, and Shulk is clothesless, lol! But still, some others would be good too, like Mr. L. (Koopalings are classified under this, I like their inclusion, while they do make sense and all, I'm just upset that Lucina couldn't be just like Bowser Jr. with this... alt thing).

7: Subspace Emissary may be removed, but we still see Glires and Mites! I loved SSE's enemies and play, a shame it isn't back, but I like the fact that Smash Run still feels like a smaller SSE. <3

8: SAMUS DOESN'T TRANSFORM UPON ZERO LAZER!!! F*** YES!!!

9: Lucario's damage meter is more useful :3 (but overwhelming with Up-Spec sometimes...) and his Aura Sphere is alot faster!

10: Palutena, Little Mac, Villager, Pac-Man, and Mega-Man I feel all deserve these slots, but seeing Vaati replace someone else like Dark Pit... would probably be better (so much you can make Vaati do... just so much). Seeing Pac-Man, Mega-Man, and Wii-Fit-Trainer from the start (I'm not forgetting you, Villager), made me feel good inside... okay I lied about Wii-Fit-Trainer... dumb idea.

11: Smash Run's enemies (not including SSE). Stalfos, Chandelure, Petlil, that helmetted guy from Mega-Man! These are things we've associated past experiences with. For example, when I was 5 I HATED Stalfos and ReDeads... (still do, but they're easy to kill now), and when I saw them in Smash Run two days ago, I almost crapped myself, and they pummeled me to a bloody pulp! Yes, bring on that pain! I want to feel my body shake with emotion! ^w^

12: The "Kid Icarus: Uprising" styled Risk/Reward system ^^ I like Mario's expressions, and I feel badass playing on 9.0 (even if I usually Game Over at least once). I didn't think it could get any harder!

13: Much improved AI system, and the 3DS does a good job delivering! I didn't expect to be spiked by Falco when he never does it in previous games :3 (made me feel awful, but the fact that it will try is endearing)

14: Street Pass is fun... not much to say about it, I don't Smash for the Street Pass, lol.

15: And FINALLY: (I know you're all thinking it) the Omega Forms of stages for (semi) competitive play (the mechanics make the competitive part alot... uhh, more complicated)! I hate stage hazards, so I'm glad I can play on (mostly) any stage I want without hazards!


If you sat through reading this whole entire thing, thank you so much! I won't ask anyone to do this strenuous reading if it was pointless, but these things bring me misery as well as joy, and I'm looking for other people's opinions on these matters as well. I know this was long, and I'm seriously grateful if you managed through! Thank you for your time, and when you leave comments, please don't "Hark 'N Remark" over my opinions. Leave a generous comment for all to enjoy (yes, even the bad, lol).

Thank you!

 

[pikafire]

I liked the positive thoughts. I think I'm just having too much fun to agree with any negatives yet, and also most of them don't apply to me so far.

Here is a bump so more people can read

 

[Lichi]

Okay, let's go through this 1 by 1:

1. Actually didn't know about that error. But game failures that lead to progress lost need not much commentary. They shouldn't happen.

2. We always had a lot of clone characters in the game, and I don't see this as a bad thing. First of all, there's those who offer a little bit of different mechanics. It's great to have those I'd say. They add to overall variety of the roster and let you pick a character likely more suited to your needs. Maybe you generally like Fox but you want something a little slower but with more kick to it? Instead of looking for a different character, pick his clone Falco.
When it comes to real clones (e.g. Dr Mario <-> Mario in Melee), well then it is just a question of design preferences.
Clones don't take away from the game, they add in one way or the other. They don't occupy slots that otherwise would have been granted to characters from other series or whatever. Look at how many new slots the game got in every iteration. Doesn't look like nintendo's sitting there thinking "Damn, would have loved to put Ridley in, but our character screen is full since we added Lucina".

Negativities:

1. Haven't found any reference yet. But in general I don't mind (stupid) inside jokes. They'd have to be very bad or gameplay affecting for me to really care.
2. Yes, options are very much limited. And it is sad that we got pure downgrades in some aspects of the game like item switch. In 2014, I would have expected way more options to tailor the game to my needs. Sucks.
3. The series has never been about characters from series, but recognizable ones. I don't see the negativity in adding a character from a stand-alone game.
4. Yes, the game feels more like Brawl than Melee (to me). But in contrast to Brawl, I enjoy playing this one. Important aspects have been altered. Similarities between games of a franchise are a good thing, as long as your new games still are new games and not just an expansion. While I do think it is very unsatisfying that you feel the "No competitive game"-attitude in Brawl and Smash 4, I have to say that Melee still exists for those who just wanted another Melee-like game. This game could have been far worse, and it does the Melee-Brawl hybrid thingy quite well.
5. I do not care about items. Imo items were designed to be random and unfair to spice things up in the living room when you're playing with ur friends who do not have the same level of expertise. They add the Mario Party feel to Smash because anything can happen anytime. That's why I play with items turned off for like... forever. But if you think there's too many items of the same themed style, turn em off individualy. Again, like clone characters, similar items don't take away from the game, they add, even if very little.
6. Well if I follow your line of thought, you'd swap out Mario based characters for Zelda based ones. Then we'd still have a lack of characters from other iconic franchises. But since we usually get more characters in general and only very few scraped...
It is true that we have a lot of Mario chars, but that's natural. Mario is the most selling franchise of nintendo and it has a ****load of games to pick characters from. Even though Zelda is also a big franchise, it is a dwarf compared to Mario. We get about 1-2 Zelda games per console, but so much Mario that I cannot even count them all, even though many of them are just very cheap clones of one another or some Tennis, Bowling, Golf w/e crap. But my criticism of that problem does not belong here.
7. Event Mode was kinda fun, indeed, but ultimately, they replaced it. My grief for lost single player modes is very limited though.
8. I have yet to encounter a villager in online mode to play against. Little Mac has weak air game and you cannot just make it disappear by saying "everyone's gotta land some time". The game is all about knocking people off the stage, and as much as characters have to land, every character has to get back to the stage at some point in the game, and that is where you have to pounce on his weakness. The more you position yourself near the edges of the stages, the weaker Little Macs ground based style gets. He's weird and different from usual fighters in smash, and I think it's more a problem of getting used to it than him being too strong.

Positives:
1. More characters = more choice. Choice in games is good, nuff said.
2. Uhm are we talking about items here? Well.......
3. While 3D runs smoothly, I have to say that I see the 3D feature in general as a big fat gimmick that doesn't really enhance games. Maybe because of me being short sighted or for whatever reason, the 3D effect blures the game while making it more plastic. Also the 3D feature on a screen this small does not really help you to immerse, but imo gives it a theatre scene feel to it with different parts of scenery standing on different layers of depth while themselves still being flat.
So when making a choice between sharp visuals and cheap tricks I pick the sharp visuals, though I respect that this game at least manages fluent gameplay with 3D, much unlinke Pokemon XY.
4. Trophies are a nice optional part of the game and it is a charming way to tell you more about stuff you might not have known otherwise. But to me they are not essential to my enjoyment.
5. Since character customization does only work when playing with friends, I'm not that much hyped. But I think it is nice to give players the opportunity to differentiate further and, ultimately, more choice.
6. Indeed a strong point. Maybe in future games we could even create our very own colour schemes?
7. SSE was a very, very dumb gamemode in my opinion. I am very glad that it got replaced. I am not a big fan of adding "story game modes" in games where there simply cannot be a logical story that links characters that don't fit together.
8. Samus' and ZZS final smashes in Brawl were so bad, they simply had to be replaced. If I pick a character, I hate being forced to move to another character I didn't pick mid game. Very, very bad design decision. But while Samus now has her laser and continues being awesome afterwards, I feel like ZSS final smash is another huge disappointment. The gunship is as lame of a final smash as Snakes gunshooting. I like the final smashes that have an instant huge flashy effect on screen and are likely to knock off players easily, without interrupting gameplay for too long. As soon as those shooting minigame smashes start, it's just everyone running around trying to escape for 20 seconds, while better smashes like light arrows give you a couple of kills the second you use it timed correctly and then lets you game on.
9. An improvement yes, but not too big for me.
10. I hate Wii Fit Trainer. Not as a Smash character, but as a concept, because it embodies everything that was wrong with the Wii and Nintendo trying to appeal to as many casuals as possible. Dark Pit is a joke. But why is this on your + list?
11. Smash Run in general is fun.
12. Yup, the scaling is nice and gives you a reason to play on higher difficulty that is not just linked to your personal pride.
13. Agreed, A.I. has improved, and it is very pleasing to see that being pulled off.
14. Meh. To me this is just anotoher gimmick I don't really use.
15. While having Omega stages is nice because I absolutely hate stage hazards when trying to play somewhat competitively, I think nintendo missed the chance to just disable them and keep the general layout of the stages. Now we got a ton of FD skins with some very little changes (usually regarding the area of the edges and below the stage), but it is still like you play on FD or Battlefield.

Ye... that's it for me.

 

[KaiRogers17]

Okay, let's go through this 1 by 1:

Just gunna shorten this post, lol.

1: Be careful, the error can be game breaking, and the forums are floating about with rumors that it's the 1.0.2 patch.

2: The reason I state "clone characters" and I, you could say, "complain" about it, is because at the time they could have either altered movesets WHEN they made up the character, or they could've used someone completely different to add MORE variety.

Negativities:

1: Yeah... he's a frickin' assist trophy... Looks like Andross a bit...

2: The lack of options will always bother the crap out of me, and I can't wait for the "full" version on a home console.

4: Idk, it just feels like Nintendo went ape s*** over one good game (I don't care for those kinda games either...) and threw him in on a whim. When you look at Nintendo, do you see Shulk? I see Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Metroid, and StarFox primarily. It was like adding Snake cuz he had 1 GBA game... Idk, I don't think it's deserved, tbh.

5: I typically don't play with items either, but it's nice to use em every now and again (I always have them on low, however, so I hate the overwhelming amount spawning in Sm4sh...).

6: That's not what I meant. The characters I suggested were mere examples of maybe replacing one or two characters for Zelda ones (just cuz there's so many you could work with) and Metroid ones (Ridley would be nice, albeit awkward). It's overwhelming to see all those Mario characters, it really is.

7: Event mode missing is a little saddening because I like to 100% my games... and that's less for me to enjoy (already finished the first page and a half of challenges, so I'm like... what do I even do now...)

8: Villager - Yeah, just try him out in training with items or something, it gets bad. Little Mac - His air game may be weak, but he's the strongest ground fighter in-game (I'm noticing, at least). Plus, the KO move??? Is that necessary? Maybe without the KO move I'd say: "Okay, maybe he's not so... overwhelming." But the fact he can kill you twice in ten seconds is ridiculous...


Positives:

1: I know <3 I love the roster... but the clones, man...

2: Yeah, the Pokeballs and Master Balls? I like the Master Ball addition, I wondered when it would happen, lol. Dat Arceus, though...

3: To me, the 3D feels great! My eyes adjust so perfectly I see no flaws! I have no problems, and I'm a retro-gamer, so naturally, graphics don't matter to me (in the long run, yes, it's what makes a game feel how it feels, but as far as minor tweaks like 3D or HD? I don't give a single damn, lol, it all looks beautiful ^^). But X/Y's 3D-less free roam was awful...

4: I enjoy viewing all of my previous adventures, and again; I'm a completionist :3

5: I only use it with Smash Run solo, because I think powerups can be unfair (which is why I turn off items). Even then I have issues with the enemies.

6: Ikr? Second I got my Wii hacked, I modded the f*** out of it for these things XD Just wish Deity Link wasn't so... dark.

7: I didn't much care for the story, it was the game and the cutscenes that I enjoyed mostly (but mostly cutscenes... which is why it's gone...). If I could animate, I'd make some fighting scenes with Smash characters.

8: Targeted smashes are so much more satisfying than timed ones anyways... G&W is just f****** annoying, ZSS' is downright stupid, and Kirby's Brawl one was sooooo much BS! Compared to Link, Zelda, Shulk, Ike, Robin, and even Meta-Knight's, they're all s***... plus I despise push-kills, so Mario's bothers the crap out of me...

9: Tbh, since Brawl, I stopped using him... it's cool that he's better, but... yeeeeahhh....

10: I hate her for both reasons, bro. She doesn't deserve the slot, probably the LEAST deserving of it, actually. And that FS??? Bulls***!

11: Yeah it is, but it can just be a huge pain sometimes, lol. F*** that stupid car thing that never dies! Omg!

12: Just seeing the Risk/Reward system made me want to play Uprising again... still haven't beaten it, I'm on Ch. 14 I believe.

13: As much as the AI has improved, I still witness rare and ridiculous suicides by the NPC. Plus, Master/Crazy Hand's new meteor... eew.

14: Again; not much to say about it...

15: Now that you mention it, I agree with you there. It does make it more competitive, yes, but also removes the natural ability to be "above and below" someone. You know, hills and platforms and stuff? I hate Magicant... JUST because of that f****** bird!!! And no Temple??? T.T My favorite stage has been removed... (I'm sure it's on the Wii U version).

 

[Dsull]

Least gannondorf is pretty different from falcon now. Same moveset but used in completely different ways. Probably the best of the clones...not saying thats a good thing lol.

I would much rather them spending their coding time on heroes that offer diversity rather than dupes. Lucina, Doc Mario, Dark Pit, and despite what i just said earlier Gannondorf should not exist. Gannon should be remade to follow Hyrule Warriors, as he is BADASS in that game, and his final smash remain the pig-form attack.
Krystal, Dixie Kong, Mewtwo (he is NOT Lucario, they are dramatically different), Impa (then again i could see them making her an Ike clone nvm), and the list could go on forever with the other Pokemon types that havent been in the game at all yet. Still kinda shocked they kept Charizard and not Squirtle since i saw a TON more squirtle than charizard.
All those and more would offer unique movesets. Yet they add Dark Pit.....dafuq?

Remove 3-4 clones for 1 unique addition, i'd be fine with a smaller roster if it meant more diversity.

 

[KaiRogers17]

Least gannondorf is pretty different from falcon now. Same moveset but used in completely different ways. Probably the best of the clones...not saying thats a good thing lol.

I would much rather them spending their coding time on heroes that offer diversity rather than dupes. Lucina, Doc Mario, Dark Pit, and despite what i just said earlier Gannondorf should not exist. Gannon should be remade to follow Hyrule Warriors, as he is BADASS in that game, and his final smash remain the pig-form attack.
Krystal, Dixie Kong, Mewtwo (he is NOT Lucario, they are dramatically different), Impa (then again i could see them making her an Ike clone nvm), and the list could go on forever with the other Pokemon types that havent been in the game at all yet. Still kinda shocked they kept Charizard and not Squirtle since i saw a TON more squirtle than charizard.
All those and more would offer unique movesets. Yet they add Dark Pit.....dafuq?

Remove 3-4 clones for 1 unique addition, i'd be fine with a smaller roster if it meant more diversity.

Agreed on everything, even if Omega Force won't allow any skins of Ganon (or Impa with her Giant's Knife), because, well, that's kinda obvious. Maybe if they asked kindly, but I don't see them or Team Ninja (I may be wrong on the name) would let it happen. But I would have loved to see those in it... on the other hand, there's still DLC (possibly). Overall, comparing this to previous titles... it sucks... sorry... but comparing it to what you would expect coming from a 3DS, then yes, it's an epic game! I play the crap out of it still (regardless as to how much I despise dupes or f****** push kills... I know that's the point of smash, but I'd rather die by a legitimate smash attack instead of... Gust Bellows at 0%)... <3 it still, and yes, I'll compare it to PM and Melee... I'd rather have those mechanics, MUCH rather.

 

[Dsull]

Thats the advantage SSB4 has over the previous ones. DLC content is a thing. I wouldnt doubt it if we get a dozen or so new characters eventually.

The mechanics of this game actually doesnt bother me. I didnt like the insane fast pace of Melee not because i couldnt cope (i played Fox mainly) but because it was almost impossible to play any of the characters that werent wicked fast. CF, Marth, Fox, Falco, Shiek, or sometimes Yoshi due to his high priority hits were the only ones that could be used at all in a competitive scene. Everyone else was just too slow, or lacked Yoshi's priority attacks to fight anyway.
Brawl pissed me off because of the tripping and tripping only. It felt a little slow but i didnt care, it was the 10000x death by slipping that made me hate competitive play in brawl. i actually hacked my wii PURELY to get Brawl+ and get that stupid mechanic removed lol.

If i had to nitpick the only mechanic of SSB4 i dont like is the shield mechanics. There seems to be a tiny gap between the Perfect Shield and normal shield where your shield basically doesnt even exist, ive had my shield get taken down by normal attacks many times and NOT by being busted, even though i clearly saw it was up. Could be a latency thing htough.

 

[Lichi]

I would much rather them spending their coding time on heroes that offer diversity rather than dupes.
[...]

Remove 3-4 clones for 1 unique addition, i'd be fine with a smaller roster if it meant more diversity.

That's the good thing with clones. They don't take much coding time since you just recycle code. The only real chunk of workload that gets added is for visual artists who need to create additional models, textures, etc. But since these guys usually have less to do when a game project comes closer to a finished state, they have the time to do so.
Adding more characters in the same time on the other hand would require more coding time that would otherwise be spent on refining mechanics, bugfixing, ...