Should up smashes be given more equality?

[Zeekfox]

Okay, so I get that different characters should have different properties so the game isn't so generic with its roster and such.

However, I feel like maybe half the characters have a pretty good up smash, whereas the other half doesn't. And I'm starting to think that in a game with so much time spent with one character in the air and the other on the ground, up smashes are just too important in a number of matchups.

For example, look at Mario. His up smash has literal invincibility on it. It beats out almost every aireal attack, with the exception of a something like a back-air that literally hits Mario's feet. But Mario has to space that badly in order for that to happen. And if you're not attacking Mario and just doing an air dodge or being too far away, the up smash recovers fast and is generally safe. And while other characters may not have actual invulnerability, others cover the whole body or have multiple hits or just really high priority.

But then, a number of the characters I like to play just don't have that. I'd say my main is Wii Fit Trainer, and her head has no sort of invulnerability to it. When I do a dash in to an up smash on a falling foe, I tend to see a lot of trades if the opponent hits a button. I very rarely beat out an attack, basically needing to hit the sweetspot where the hands are raised, which is a small enough hitbox to require a read.

Other characters like Pac-Man and Olimar have disjointed hitboxes on their up smashes, but they're both fairly underwhelming in different ways. Pac-Man up smash is terribly slow and easy to punish, but even when thrown on point, it doesn't reliably beat out aireals. Olimar smashes are obviously hard to talk about briefly with his 5 colors of pikmin, but the pikmin basically have a durability to them before they die, and let's just say that trying to up smash counter a downward Falcon Kick turned into an awful habit when I picked Olimar. The pikmin would just die and I'd get kicked regardless.

Yeah, I know that it turns into "gotta learn the matchup" stuff. If your up smash isn't good, use other tools. Problem is, if one character can safely approach with aireal attacks and the other can't? That's incredibly limiting on options, almost to the point of killing entire characters from the tournament scene.

 

[Lavani]

Wii Fit actually has a window of full-body invincibility on her usmash (usmashes like only have the head/respective limbs invincible), but the unfortunate reason you still see trades is because it ends before the attack actually hits.

Anti-air moves with upper body invincibility are pretty common in fighting games. The only characters that don't have a usmash or utilt with upward disjoint/invincibility are (?), and for several of them it was likely a conscious balance decision (Diddy likely lacks invuln as he already has bananas to control the ground and an incontestable anti-air on top of that would be a bit much; Mac's usmash has super armor; Falcon and Ganon usmashes actually have forward disjoint and the latter has very little end lag, and both characters have uairs well-suited to hitting opponents above them; Zelda can instead shield the hit and her OoS usmash/upB will kill quite early). Olimar's Pikmin flaw isn't exclusive to his usmash and is something he needs to be conscious of with every Pikmin-related attack in his kit.

I guess I can only really say "pray your character gets buffed". I don't feel like there's really a scenario where a character's usmash isn't deliberately lacking disjoint or that a lacking usmash is the only thing wrong with the character's design.

Also with examples like Falcon Kick, why not just shield the attack and punish the end lag instead? Directly contesting attacks isn't the only way to beat them.

 

[Zeekfox]

Also with examples like Falcon Kick, why not just shield the attack and punish the end lag instead? Directly contesting attacks isn't the only way to beat them.

Depending on characters and percents, sometimes the launch of an up smash would be the better punish. But, of course, that only applies if the up smash actually works. I mean, I did stop trying to up smash Falcon Kicks once I realized it was never going to work with Olimar, though I still wish it did since Olimar doesn't get a very good punish when blocking with a normal shield.

There are also aireals with little to no landing lag that are safe on block. In such a case, moving towards the opponent and using an up smash can punish, but only if your character has an up smash that can do that. Otherwise, you're pretty much out of luck and forced into trying to catch them whiffing an aireal poke.

 

[Fluorescent]

I see your point. I feel a lot of the characters I use the most don't have the same benefit or quality as the best Up-Smashes in the game. Some examples I can think of are and maybe for that matter have very reliable Up-Smashes imo.

While all I can do is hope that buffs are given out to the characters I play, the equality of having everyone have an Up-Smash that is like each other is just not possible in the way I see it.
From what I can put down is that a character's given up-smash is not because it's to differentiate them from if they're strong or not. But 'kit wise'.

has an Up-Smash like but is a less bit powerful because Tink is suppose to be a faster version of while Link being more powerful kit wise.
has an Up-Smash that relates to him because he uses a disjointed yo-yo, that's part of his kit. While not as powerful as other Up-Smashes it does give him interesting properties to his play.
has an Up-Smash that interesting as well because it's her whip that's trailing in the air. It can hit multiple times but good smash DI can make you get out of the final hit of the move.

I don't know if I was able to get my opinion across as well or I might have used some info incorrectly but I find that most Up-Smashes are like this because they relate to their character. If everyone's Up-Smash had the same strength as i.e just wouldn't seem right would it?

 

[Gamr_8]

As an Olimar main I never see myself using up-smash because side-smash, down-smash and even up-tilt are just so much better alternatives than up-smash. His up smash has so much ending lag as compared to other up-smashes.

Sonic's up-smash is really good; I don't know the specifics I just know that it is just really good. I use it a lot when I am running towards an opponent.

Robin's I use a lot when I get someone trapped in my arcfire or arcthunder, I use to put on additional damage, not really to kill.

 

[Zylach]

Wii Fit actually has a window of full-body invincibility on her usmash (usmashes like only have the head/respective limbs invincible), but the unfortunate reason you still see trades is because it ends before the attack actually hits.

Anti-air moves with upper body invincibility are pretty common in fighting games. The only characters that don't have a usmash or utilt with upward disjoint/invincibility are (?), and for several of them it was likely a conscious balance decision (Diddy likely lacks invuln as he already has bananas to control the ground and an incontestable anti-air on top of that would be a bit much; Mac's usmash has super armor; Falcon and Ganon usmashes actually have forward disjoint and the latter has very little end lag, and both characters have uairs well-suited to hitting opponents above them; Zelda can instead shield the hit and her OoS usmash/upB will kill quite early). Olimar's Pikmin flaw isn't exclusive to his usmash and is something he needs to be conscious of with every Pikmin-related attack in his kit.

I guess I can only really say "pray your character gets buffed". I don't feel like there's really a scenario where a character's usmash isn't deliberately lacking disjoint or that a lacking usmash is the only thing wrong with the character's design.

Also with examples like Falcon Kick, why not just shield the attack and punish the end lag instead? Directly contesting attacks isn't the only way to beat them.

Both of Zelda's grounded upwards attacks have disjoints. Her utilt has the better disjoint. Usmash has a fairly small disjoint until the final hit which can actually catch people below her.

 

[Quarium]

Anti-air moves with upper body invincibility are pretty common in fighting games. The only characters that don't have a usmash or utilt with upward disjoint/invincibility are (?), and for several of them it was likely a conscious balance decision (Diddy likely lacks invuln as he already has bananas to control the ground and an incontestable anti-air on top of that would be a bit much; Mac's usmash has super armor; Falcon and Ganon usmashes actually have forward disjoint and the latter has very little end lag, and both characters have uairs well-suited to hitting opponents above them; Zelda can instead shield the hit and her OoS usmash/upB will kill quite early). Olimar's Pikmin flaw isn't exclusive to his usmash and is something he needs to be conscious of with every Pikmin-related attack in his kit.

I love how you didn't give a justification for Jiggs upsmash being slow, not having much knockback for a dang upsmash, dumb hitbox that trades with everything and having no invincibility.

...Because there isn't one.

#BuffThePuff

 

[Rinku リンク]

We should all wear helmets so our U-smashes are as good as