Smash Wii U Should patches focus on the game, not the character?

[Foxus]

This idea came from patch talk in a recent thread. Would it be a good idea to put focus on the game, over just characters when patches are released?

Just the small things, such as improved menu selection, adding platforms to Omega stages, and improved online gameplay. We could beef up Ike or Capt Falcon until they look like replicas of Hulk Hogan, But would it be more productive to focus on the games quality overall, over just cherrypicking which characters are beefed up and which ones are nerfed?

 

[Kurri ★]

This idea came from patch talk in a recent thread. Would it be a good idea to put focus on the game, over just characters when patches are released?

Just the small things, such as improved menu selection, adding platforms to Omega stages, and improved online gameplay. We could beef up Ike or Capt Falcon until they look like replicas of Hulk Hogan, But would it be more productive to focus on the games quality overall, over just cherrypicking which characters are beefed up and which ones are nerfed?

A lot of these things are a lot less important than character changes though. You could add as many platforms as you'd like, make the menu as appealing as possible, but that won't change a broken character or make a bad character better.

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

A lot of these things are a lot less important than character changes though. You could add as many platforms as you'd like, make the menu as appealing as possible, but that won't change a broken character or make a bad character better.

I feel as if the game should improve over the characters, but as you say, the characters would feel like they should not be used by how broken they are. I would agree with you there.

 

[Kurri ★]

I feel as if the game should improve over the characters, but as you say, the characters would feel like they should not be used by how broken they are. I would agree with you there.

The most important part of the game is the characters though. The game could have the most legal, fun stages ever, but if the characters aren't fun it won't matter.

I'd like more standard stages, but Smash 4 is already fine as is with that. The menu is ass, but that only matters if you're doing something other than the usual smashing.

Better online would be beneficial though, but I'm not sure if that's a Smash problem.

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

Better online would be beneficial though, but I'm not sure if that's a Smash problem.

For 4 player smashes, it can be a problem depending on one's internet.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Who's to say they can't do both?

 

[Foxus]

Who's to say they can't do both?

My thoughts exactly as I read the responses in this thread.

It seems when I hear about patches, its about a character getting stronger and a character getting weaker.There's some patches on the game Sakurai could put some grout on. Let us work on both, but not just one part exclusively.

 

[Kurri ★]

My thoughts exactly as I read the responses in this thread.

It seems when I hear about patches, its about a character getting stronger and a character getting weaker.There's some patches on the game Sakurai could put some grout on. Let us work on both, but not just one part exclusively.

Probably because he doesn't see much of a problem with that part of the game. Sure we may, but if Sakurai doesn't it won't get changed.

I mean, what changes would you really want that are also feasible?

 

[Foxus]

Probably because he doesn't see much of a problem with that part of the game. Sure we may, but if Sakurai doesn't it won't get changed.

I mean, what changes would you really want that are also feasible?

If anything, its more about convenience. Like instead of going back to the character selection screen, you have a menu pop up with three options, "Continue to Next Match," "Return to Character Selection," or "Quit Playing." The patches could address online gameplay as well.

 

[Wintropy]

you can do both, but characters are naturally going to take priority. this is a character-based game, and if the dev team just focused on making the menus shiny and putting platforms in omega mode stages, the roster wouldn't be as balanced and the game would suffer for it.

it isn't as simple as cherrypicking who gets buffed and nerfed, it's a gradual process based on competitive results and player response. ike was buffed, for eample, because he was a broken mess when the game first dropped and it was difficult to do things with him because of that. diddy was nerfed because hoo-ha was an insane technique that dominated tournaments and invalidated weaker characters, so that had to go. by contrast, the demand for better menus and stages isn't as vocal or, honestly, important to the integrity of the game.

that said, there have been examples of changes in patches that have changed the mechanics of the game in an egalitarian sense, rather than individual characters. examples of this would be the removal of vectoring and the increased shieldstun, which change how the game operates on a very basic stratum. i think that can be good if done well.

 

[SherrdreamZ]

Short Answer: No

Long Answer: Its far less neccisary because those tweaks are purely cosmetic, and do not improve the function of the game. It's kind of like Decorating the Frame of an imperfect Portrait, you could make it theoretically look prettier, hang more evenly. However what matters most is the subject matter, something that improves the product as a whole takes greater precedent. The Menu is admittedly slightly wonky but i doubt any of it warrants a change aside from Online Functionality or whatever Nintendo deems would improve the games performance IE. Glitches, Exploits, Balance.

 

[CrazyPerson]

Who's to say they can't do both?

Though not word for word, this is pretty close to what I was going to say.

Balancing characters is a good thing to a point... (Stop nerfing Falcon). If done well (it hasn't always been) it makes the game better.

With that said... there are things that could be added. Break the targets is something a lot of people would like. (though I am not sure I would want to pay for it.) A true classic mode... or melee All Star with some changes. (I liked the randomness... made it feel like a different experience each time. Focucinsg on history made it less fun IMO. As for changes I want to be able to choose who's home stage I go to... don't like losing because I draw luigis mansion instead of delphino.)

And some new things... why is that awesome smash tour final battle only available in smash tour? Why can't we pick our best 5 and go to war?

And there are some changes to matches that could be good... Better AI that isn't input reading perfect air dodge game making practicing that against aq moving target impossible.

Ahh there I go again...

Anyway... I do think some focus should be put into other things than characters... but I don't want smash to take a trip to far away from what makes it great.

 

[Kurri ★]

Though not word for word, this is pretty close to what I was going to say.

Balancing characters is a good thing to a point... (Stop nerfing Falcon). If done well (it hasn't always been) it makes the game better.

With that said... there are things that could be added. Break the targets is something a lot of people would like. (though I am not sure I would want to pay for it.) A true classic mode... or melee All Star with some changes. (I liked the randomness... made it feel like a different experience each time. Focucinsg on history made it less fun IMO. As for changes I want to be able to choose who's home stage I go to... don't like losing because I draw luigis mansion instead of delphino.)

And some new things... why is that awesome smash tour final battle only available in smash tour? Why can't we pick our best 5 and go to war?

And there are some changes to matches that could be good... Better AI that isn't input reading perfect air dodge game making practicing that against aq moving target impossible.

Ahh there I go again...

Anyway... I do think some focus should be put into other things than characters... but I don't want smash to take a trip to far away from what makes it great.

Break the Targets would have to be DLC, and unless someone on Sakurai's team is willing to take time out of their day to make it, it'll be paid. A "True Classic Mode" would also be work.

Making better AI is also really hard and in the end not actually worth the effort.

 

[CrazyPerson]

Break the Targets would have to be DLC, and unless someone on Sakurai's team is willing to take time out of their day to make it, it'll be paid. A "True Classic Mode" would also be work.

Making better AI is also really hard and in the end not actually worth the effort.

In a game that is primarily multiplayer... enabling the single player to be an effective training for it is well worth it.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Characters should be top priority as they are ultimately what the game is made of and how it's played. With that said, the rest of the game shouldn't be ignored or overlooked just because of the characters. I think that adding touch screen support to the menus on the gamepad would be great, or updating certain graphics could be nice. Maybe updating skins or something if there were any errors, but other than that there isn't much else to focus on besides the characters.

 

[Jaedrik]

There should be major feature content patches alongside the standard balance and DLC character patches.
Stuff like "Melee mode," and "no stage hazard mode," and "Board the platforms / break the targets," generally options and extras that could only positively impact the playerbase of the game minus a few whiners who wish to remove choice and impose their tastes on others or direct all the development resources into what they prefer.
Not only that, but AI should get an expansion into prediction algorithms versus opponent input, pattern recognition and signing, and emergent combo / defensive input generation based on all relevant factors. A monumental task indeed.

 

[Kurri ★]

In a game that is primarily multiplayer... enabling the single player to be an effective training for it is well worth it.

No I mean AI in general is hard, like really hard. It's sorta why AI in games sorta stagnated, making good AI requires a **** ton of effort

 

[LancerStaff]

This idea came from patch talk in a recent thread. Would it be a good idea to put focus on the game, over just characters when patches are released?

Just the small things, such as improved menu selection, adding platforms to Omega stages, and improved online gameplay. We could beef up Ike or Capt Falcon until they look like replicas of Hulk Hogan, But would it be more productive to focus on the games quality overall, over just cherrypicking which characters are beefed up and which ones are nerfed?

Not a lot that needs fixing besides characters IMO. Mechanically, not much needs fixing besides the silly rage + smash charge vulnerability and things like that. Adding platforms to omegas defeats the point altogether, being that for Glory is supposed to be quick and easy without hoping for good stage RNG for Mac or whoever to be playable.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Dunno about you but the most ideal patches either did massive character-based changes or mixed in game-based and character-based changes at the same time.

So just, lots of good changes.

 

[ForteX]

Adding platforms to omegas defeats the point altogether, being that for Glory is supposed to be quick and easy without hoping for good stage RNG for Mac or whoever to be playable.

No, For Glory is a parody of competitive Smash. The decision to not have a Battlefield version of every stage alongside a Final Destination version had nothing to do with Little Mac's viability on stages with platforms.

Back to the topic at hand...

In general, fixes to the enjoyment of the game outside of character balance are fine, but overall worthless. I especially think this when they add a new feature such as tournament mode or upload to Youtube, but botch it horribly like they did. Overall, the only thing I want added to the game that isn't a character or character balance is an option to disable transformations and disable bosses/stage hazards, since that would add so many legal and great stages to the list.

Consider the following: the bottom line to patches is to prolong the monetarily viable life of the game. We're already looking at the most balanced version of Smash ever made, and no amount of patches will change the fact that in the long run, the competitive community is the only group of people who are going to care about this game. We're probably still within the time period that average people still care about Smash, but considering that it's coming in a Wii U bundle with Splatoon, its average person lifespan is probably going to end here pretty soon - the only market for changes to the game will fall on those of us who will purchase the DLC that funds the patches. Anything that doesn't appease hardcore fans of the game will be wasted effort, and thus, wasted money on Nintendo's part.

Long story short? Balance changes and character additions are the only things that matter. Ass menu was probably the first thing developed and currently the last thing on anyone's mind.

 

[Foxus]

Not a lot that needs fixing besides characters IMO. Mechanically, not much needs fixing besides the silly rage + smash charge vulnerability and things like that. Adding platforms to omegas defeats the point altogether, being that for Glory is supposed to be quick and easy without hoping for good stage RNG for Mac or whoever to be playable.

Characters with a lot of damage (like in SD matches) bounce too much (probably bounce up to 7 times, depending on the damage). That could be a fix.

 

[LancerStaff]

No, For Glory is a parody of competitive Smash. The decision to not have a Battlefield version of every stage alongside a Final Destination version had nothing to do with Little Mac's viability on stages with platforms.

Nope. For Glory was Final Destination only because that was and still is the most played stage overall. Casually, it's the competitive standard so to speak. Adding a major element of RNG to for Glory would of been worse then it is now, and had Sakurai made his own "competitive" stagelist there'd be just as much whining as if it was FD only judging from how stage discussion goes.

Characters with a lot of damage (like in SD matches) bounce too much (probably bounce up to 7 times, depending on the damage). That could be a fix.

That's kinda what I'm saying... Mechanically all that's left to change are nitpicks.