Should a Player DI or VI in smash 4?

[Octavium]

Since the release of smash 4 3ds there has been some... changes to DI, the function would add a Vector to your knockback instead of an angle. This would allow you to control the distance when you get knocked back, serving as a useful tool to limit your opponent's follow-ups and increase your KO percent, it had the same purpose as DI but it was much easier and much more straightforward to do.

VI details here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/vectoring-the-replacement-to-directional-influence-in-smash-4.368780/

But then we got patch 1.0.4 which would remove the possibility of vertical VI, meaning the Vector can now only be added horizontally. And the patch seemingly added Traditional DI back to the game.

VI changes here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/dawn-of-a-new-day-vectoring-mostly-removed-in-patch-1-0-4.378709/

As most you you probably know DI is similar to VI but it changes the knockback angle instead the knockback value. VI is moving the analog stick/thumbpad to add a vector to that direction while being knocked back. DI is moving the analog stick perpendicular to the knock back to modify its angle.

DI details here:
http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Directional_Influence

My question is, which is more effective to use, which one of them should I prioritise when getting hit to maximise my influence of the knockback I'm receiving?

 

[Raijinken]

Depends on the move. Hold OUT of combos (either via vector or DI), hold AWAY from blast lines. It's situational, but both sorts of skills are useful.

 

[David Viran]

If you get sent staight up never hold down left or right is best.

 

[Space thing]

I'm not sure that vectoring as it was explained was ever really a thing. The post post below by @Big O seems to explain things as they are now at least.

The biggest problem is that no one really understood or fully explored what vectoring really was until the patch. Basically vectoring itself was extremely misleading. Vectoring was really just a flawed explanation of what was really going on (regular Brawl/Melee DI but with knockback altered based on holding up/down). Essentially holding up increased knockback, holding down decreased knockback, and holding left or right did nothing except DI.

For all moves the launch angle of the attack is influenced by regular Melee/Brawl DI, although perhaps not as strongly as previous games.

For moves that launch horizontally (60 degrees or less?) there is an additional component that alters knockback recieved. For such moves holding up increases knockback and holding down decreases knockback. Holding up will kill you earlier regardless of favorable DI (kb increases more than the angle can compensate). Holding down will kill you later regardless of unfavorable DI (with crouch canceling this is even stronger). The best DI for horizontal moves is usually diagonally up/towards, but for some moves the best DI is down/towards or just towards like Ness Bthrow.

This pretty much matches what I got from testing too, so yea.

 

[Pazx]

short answer: both

 

[Octavium]

I'm not sure that vectoring as it was explained was ever really a thing. The post post below by @Big O seems to explain things as they are now at least.
This pretty much matches what I got from testing too, so yea.

This is really interesting, so VI was never really a thing?

 

[Octavium]

short answer: both

Could we get a long answer? This is a thread and everyone reading it might benefit from the info.

Of course both mechanics have their respective uses, that's common knowledge but examples of which is better in different scenarios is the valuable info here.

 

[ReRaze]

Say your launched to a corner blast zone (diagonally up)....which way should you vector/Di? should you hold towards the place you were launched from? just hold horizontally? or traditionally DI

 

[icraq]

vectoring was only removed on vertical knockback but exists still on horizontal. just hold opposite of horrizontal attacks, left or right on vertocal.

 

[srn347]

According to smashwiki, the DI of smash 4 (3ds) was entirely reverted to the previous system, making vectoring entirely nonexistent. So just hold up on horizontal attacks and left or right on vertical (and for angled attacks, perpendicular to the motion unless that would push you into the adjacent blast zone).

 

[David Viran]

According to smashwiki, the DI of smash 4 (3ds) was entirely reverted to the previous system, making vectoring entirely nonexistent. So just hold up on horizontal attacks and left or right on vertical (and for angled attacks, perpendicular to the motion unless that would push you into the adjacent blast zone).

Don't listen to wiki. Do not hold up because vectoring is still present and holding up increases kb. Holding into the stage is still pretty good when hit horizontally. You are right when hit vertically tho.

 

[Octavium]

Don't listen to wiki. Do not hold up because vectoring is still present and holding up increases kb. Holding into the stage is still pretty good when hit horizontally. You are right when hit vertically tho.

Yeah trying to DI away from the blastzone can be dangerous with the Knockback increase, I can't say I like it.

 

[Ulevo]

I've gone in and tested this on a Mario using a Ganondorf's Warlock Punch on a large stage to see how far Mario goes. Essentially, if you're concerned about being knocked out in the side blastzones, holding up is not as bad as holding away. It's still bad. However, normally by holding up when being sent sideways, you would just alter your trajectory while flying the same distance and thus avoid the blastzone. This does not happen anymore, and altering your trajectory can actually increase the distance you fly. While this does not necessarily mean you will hit the side blast zone, with strong attacks that send at diagonal angles, there is a strong possibility of you hitting the ceiling now. Because of this, there's basically no point where you ever want to DI up to avoid a killing blow. This also means that holding up against attacks that will send you towards the corner of the blastzone will not help. Holding towards the stage is optimal. There will be times holding down is optimal if you think you can floor tech the stage, however.

tl;dr, when you want to avoid dying, hold toward the stage. If you want to tech the floor against certain attacks, hold down. If you want to avoid combos or follow ups, that is move and combo dependent.

 

[Octavium]

Snip

Yeah I kind of figured it worked this way, Its likely a design choice in order to weaken the effectiveness of DI when attempting to survive KO moves. Its probably better this way than making a circular blast zone.

I can't say I'm all for it, but it at least stops KO percents from being much higher. However it also weakens whatever is left of the execution barrier. Which is arguably non-existent at this point xD

Thanks for your input on the matter.

 

[Lyserdon]

I had a thought today that if correct could offer a simpler explanation for what's going on with "vectoring" vs traditional DI. If it's true, it could offer some insight into optimizing the way we avoid blast zones. I don't have a copy of the game to test, but I could suggest ways of testing it.

What if "vectoring" isn't quite a new mechanic, but the ability to drift while suffering knockback? If this or something close to it is true, it'd be fairly easy to test by measuring how much horizontal knockback can be reduced by Yoshi vs. Dedede. Higher airspeed characters should be able to make larger horizontal reductions to the same amount of knockback compared to lower airspeed characters.

If this turns out to be true, then it could have implications for survival DI. For instance, when being hit horizontally, maybe the best option is to DI toward the corner quickly, then once your trajectory is set, you immediately begin to drift directly left or right toward the stage. I'm assuming here that traditional DI is set during a window in the beginning, not applied over the course of the knockback. I think if the latter was the case, we'd see much more curved trajectories.

If this seems like a reasonable hypothesis to anyone, I'd love to hear about testing it and be involved in figuring out if that is indeed what's going on.