Shine Frame Data

[Vro]

I'm having trouble waveshining and learning the timing of falco's shine's IASA time. I know fox is after 3 frames, is this true for falco? I can jump cancel my shines just fine, it's just jump cancel > wavedash is very difficult for me. I know a lot of is practice, but I'm having trouble learning the timing, especially when turning around with the shine active is involved.

Anyone know the IASA data for falco's shine or can give me any tips?

 

[SCOTU]

First Off, the shine isn't IASA.

2nd off,

Reflector

Total: 39 (or more)
Hits: 1
Invincible: 1
Reflects: 4-21 or release+1
Jump cancelable whenever it reflects
Lag upon release: 19

Shield stun: 9
(shield) hit lag: 4
Reflection lag: 19

(from SDM's Frame Data)

 

[mathos]

Scotu lord of the frame data.

 

[Adi]

Lol, I had this same problem too, chances are you're pushing L/R too fast after jump canceling the shine. Slow it down a bit and work out the rhthym for waveshining and you'll get it.

 

[B0mbe1c]

Yeah, I had the same Waveshining problem. But I think I almost have it done perfectly.

 

[Vro]

Thanks Scotu. My mistake.

Any tips on dair > l-cancel > shine > wavedash >shine ?

Even without an opponent (just empty air) I'm having trouble doing it. I know a lot of it is practice, but anything you guys figured out that's helpful for this? Adi's comment was very helpful. From what I heard, Falco's shine is very rhythm based.

 

[SCOTU]

Yeah, here's a tip. There are just two different timings for that if it's empty vs on a shield (or person). So if you want to be able to do it to a person, don't practice on the air. I miss most L-cancels when my attacks don't hit.

EDIT: For the record: Shines blow at shield pressure. Just know that. In fact, all moves blow at shield pressure. The metagame just isn't quite there yet. But there is nothing one can do to pressure shields effectively if the other person knows what to do, and when. NOT EVEN MULTISHINES.

 

[Vro]

NOT EVEN MULTISHINES?! GASP

And yeah, I know l-cancels change empty vs player because the cancel depends on when you land. I remember discovering that with Link's dair. I was all.. I can so l-cancel all these and I'll know cause they're noticeable... I just hit my opponent... and didn't l-cancel. -.-

Back to the subject, reall there is no way to pressure a person shielding unless they want to be pressured? I see what you mean, rolling, grabbing, jumping, there are so many ways out of the shield, to force pillar someone seems nearly impossible. =O

 

[Adi]

Yeah, here's a tip. There are just two different timings for that if it's empty vs on a shield (or person). So if you want to be able to do it to a person, don't practice on the air. I miss most L-cancels when my attacks don't hit.

EDIT: For the record: Shines blow at shield pressure. Just know that. In fact, all moves blow at shield pressure. The metagame just isn't quite there yet. But there is nothing one can do to pressure shields effectively if the other person knows what to do, and when. NOT EVEN MULTISHINES.

What do you mean Scotu, that pillaring doesn't work if the opponent times a move out of shield right? And how are they expected to do anything in between multishines lol.

 

[mathos]

Thats exactly what Scotu is saying. Pillaring only works if you do it frame perfect and your opponent is mentally confused.