Shielding extends your hurtbox in Smash 4

[Zorai]

This is a key mechanic I've noticed repeatedly in Smash 4. This mechanic also can turn Marth's shieldbreaker into a move with insane range when employed properly. It can be devastating.

Here is a short description:
Within the first few frames of shielding your hurtbox is extended so that moves that otherwise wouldn't have reached you, reach you and subsequently hit your shield.

Exhibit A: http://www.twitch.tv/morphiziz/v/4143750
Timestamp: 2:33:56
Tipper fsmash was out of range, extended hurtbox from Shulk shielding.

BREAKDOWN: http://puu.sh/hjNNp/3108430d39.jpg (THIS IS KEY) Note: this mechanic is most easily noticed with sword characters.

In addition this mechanic makes long range down tilts hit when they otherwise wouldn't, making them unpunishable. And they often shieldpoke too depending on how small your shield is.

I'm sure there are many other examples of this and I recall seeing them before, but I forget in which videos.

 

[Ulevo]

Obviously in the example shown, you are hitting the shield. My question would be, if Shulk had held the shield for longer, exposing his hurtbox, would the same tippered forward smash have hit, or is this image showing us that the range of the shield extends beyond its visual representation?

 

[LightLV]

I don't see how this is particularly useful...? The shield senser is certainly bigger than the hurtbox, otherwise you'd be getting shieldpoked. Smash 4 also has no shieldpush and like -5 frames of blockstun.

If it was hitting his hurtbox, shulk would have taken damage. He just shielded it.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

This is highly dependent on shield animation. Some characters don't spread their legs so much; some characters crouch down and lower their vertical size.

For all it's worth, you can cancel your shield into a spotdodge or roll, meaning that you can shield for three frames for a potential powershield, then use another tool to prevent what you're talking about from happening.

 

[Zorai]

It can make certain moves unpunishable (downtilts come to mind) and just extends your range really. I don't know all of its implications, that's what this thread is for. Just food for thought really

Also, Shulk's legs most likely have nothing to do with this since even his leg is substantially far from Marth's fsmash.

 

[LightLV]

This is just the hitbox of the move technically touching the sensor of the shield (which extends out past the hurtbox), only not visually.

If a hitbox (attack) touches the hurtbox (character) without touching the shield sensor, it's a shieldstab.

This hitbox not only struck the shield sensor (it was blocked)...but was perfect blocked, and marth actually got punished for it. This is useful only technically for Marth/Lucina's Shield Breaker, in the sense it can touch the shield from slightly farther away than it visually looks like it can. But that's about it.

The hurtbox didn't go anywhere

 

[Zorai]

This is useful only technically for Marth/Lucina's Shield Breaker, in the sense it can touch the shield from slightly farther away than it visually looks like it can.

WAY farther away if you actually catch them in the proper frame. But for right now this and a bunch of different down tilts are the only uses I see for it.

 

[Ulevo]

Again though, if it is only extending the sensor of the shield and not the characters actual hurt box then it really does not change much. It is worth mentioning that investigating character hurt box animations during shields would be worth researching.

 

[LightLV]

There aren't even that many characters that benefit from shieldstabbing in this game, since getting almost anything blocked is likely to get you punished. Smash 4 doesn't really have a shield pressure game.

 

[Solo Popo]

It's been that way since Brawl. Shielding also increases your own grab range on opponents who connect with your shield.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

It does not make any difference since you can slowly move the shield to "uncovered parts"... Don't look at me like that!

 

[ぱみゅ]

This vaguely reminds me of @Shaya's analysis on Mikeneko's wonderful spacing and how magnificent he is at choosing when to and when not to shield.

 

[LightLV]

It does not make any difference since you can slowly move the shield to "uncovered parts"... Don't look at me like that!

It does make a difference...just not enough to put much research into i think. The amount of moves with hitboxes thin enough to touch a hurtbox without triggering a block is really small, and there's no blockstun or blockpush to make the tactic very reliable without putting yourself in danger anyway. If an attack can be shielded, it can probably be perfect shielded, and very nearly anything perfect shielded is viable to be punished, like in the case study video above.

Moreover, again your hurtbox isn't going anywhere. This is only really useful for moves that give benefit upon shield collision...and Shield Breaker is the only move in smash4 like that im sure.

 

[Zorai]

Another really good example of how this mechanic makes certain downtilts have much longer range than they normally would, making them subsequently unpunishable:

http://puu.sh/hkqSL/618b5e7a80.jpg (dtilt hit, 100% unpunishable)

Video: https://youtu.be/WeMId5N0DFI?t=238
Timestamp: 3:59

This really exemplifies the mechanic to the fullest. If you take a look at the photo, Falco's dtilt range was clearly extended by A LOT due to hitting Falcon's shield. I suspect that if Falcon's shield was any smaller, the dtilt would have hit him. It appears that shields may have some kind of vacuum effect in this game, which WOULD basically be increasing the character's hurtbox. This should definitely be investigated more.

 

[LightLV]

This really exemplifies the mechanic to the fullest. If you take a look at the photo, Falco's dtilt range was clearly extended by A LOT due to hitting Falcon's shield. I suspect that if Falcon's shield was any smaller, the dtilt would have hit him.

I've already explained this...the shield sensor and the collision bubble of the characters are two seperate objects, and the shield sensor naturally extends beyond the hurtbox of the characters. If his shield was down, the attack likely would have wiffed.

You can test this yourself. Just get someone like Marth or Falco with long reaching Dtilts, position another character a few pixels past where the attack will connect, and then have them shield.

Again...there is really nothing exploitable about this observation unless actually connecting with the shield is the intended effect. And unless you're doing shieldbreaker or a grab, that's about it.

 

[Zorai]

If his shield was down, the attack likely would have wiffed.

Yup that's what I'm saying. The question I'm posing is what if his shield was smaller at that exact instant?

 

[LightLV]

Yup that's what I'm saying. The question I'm posing is what if his shield was smaller at that exact instant?

Then it would have missed the shield too, and the whole attack would have wiffed.

 

[Ulevo]

Then it would have missed the shield too, and the whole attack would have wiffed.

I'm pretty sure this is how it works. I'll test it later to be sure, but I don't see why it would work otherwise.