Shield Pressure: The deciding factor in Smash 4 viability?

[One Tilt]

I have a pretty simple question to pose: what makes a character viable in smash 4? In Melee, it seemed like speed and combos, while Brawl seemed to be chaingrabs and air control, but with airdodging changes, combos and chaingrabs being removed, and the speed of attacks being more normalized than ever, I feel like none of them are nearly the 'defining factors of viability' that they used to be. Sure, speed's still important, but I'd argue it's less so than ever, given how safe approach options are required to take advantage of that... but what defines a safe approach? I'd argue it's shield pressure, and, for that matter, I'm starting to feel like shield pressure might be the defining factor in a character's viability in smash 4. Not the only factor, certainly, but in this defensive metagame, one's ability to pressure said defensive opponent just feels too important to ignore... and, honestly, I do feel like its importance is being understated in analysis.

Lets take Diddy Kong to start, then. Why is he good? Having 'the only true combo in the game'? One combo? Bananas? Despite the nerf? I'd argue it's shield pressure-- sure, he has a true combo, but that's only adds threat to his shield-pressure game. His great grab, punishing follow-ups, and solid side B all amount to shield pressure, and that feels to be the one trait in common with the characters I'm seeing heavily used now. Diddy has side B and grabs along with a repeating jab and the like, Sheik has Ftilt and a repeating jab, ZSS has a great tether grab, Robin has shield-baiting arcfire/arcthunders to follow up into, Little Mac has Ftilt that hits twice from out of shield-grab range and that jab... Sure, combos and speed are a factor in common for Diddy/Shiek/ZSS, but what separates them from Pikachu? I'd say it's minimal shield pressure, as Pikachu lacks for a solid grab range, a repeating jab, a trapping Ftilt, or so on... Now, I may be wrong with this, but I was still finding Ike to preform better than Pikachu, who has better combos, speed, and recovery, simply because of Ike's Nair providing better shield pressure as an approach than anything Pikachu felt to have.

Am I missing something? Or did I happen upon something important here? I'm sincerely asking (I by no means claim to be any expert at analysis yet), but I couldn't find any discussion on shield pressure and its importance, so I felt it worth posting a thread for.

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

Grabs. Grab-game gotta be good in Smash 4.

 

[Raijinken]

Shield pressure is important, but it's also worth noting that shield pressure is moot against perfect shields, which are more and more manageable as people get used to the ins and outs of the game. Shield pressure is definitely important, but I wouldn't rank it above other traits.

 

[Sleek Media]

Defining factor is speed, specifically the ability to quickly generate attacks with small/nonexistent punish opportunities in block/dodge, same as all other Smash games.

Right now Diddy appears to be tops because his attacks are fast, powerful, combo, and naturally create frame traps for many defensive options.

Smash 4 is much more robust than Melee or Brawl, however, and even at the relatively low level of current play, people are coming up with counter play for traditionally safe rushdown. It isn't clear that speed will remain as important as it is right now, much less in the future.

To answer the question, I think shield pressure is mostly irrelevant due to the ease of power shielding. This is a good thing.

 

[One Tilt]

Hm... it's always difficult for me to keep in mind how much easier power shielding is when I look at these things. I seem to have mistaken the tools that allow a character good shield pressure (threatening grabs, low-lag attacks, etc.) for shield pressure itself. Good to know-- can only help my understanding of the game compared to melee. Appreciate the educational replies.

Though, thinking of it, now I'm wondering at what moves might be safe on power shield (grabs aside, of course).

 

[HeroMystic]

Though, thinking of it, now I'm wondering at what moves might be safe on power shield (grabs aside, of course).

Pretty much nothing outside of multi-hits which makes powershielding irrelevant.

I actually think Smash 4's idea of using shield pressure is a step in the right direction. There's a good amount of moves that deal heavy shield damage (mostly relevant to heavy characters with Marcina being an outlier), while there are a good amount of moves that deal small, but rapid shield damage (Samus' Up-B comes to mind). I think this is a good thing, but it can be pushed even further to make shield pressure more relevant than it is now.

Simply put, shield regeneration is just too fast to take advantage of shield damage. I think if this had... I dunno, half of the regen speed it has now, it could make for some interesting play.

 

[Sleek Media]

Hm... it's always difficult for me to keep in mind how much easier power shielding is when I look at these things. I seem to have mistaken the tools that allow a character good shield pressure (threatening grabs, low-lag attacks, etc.) for shield pressure itself. Good to know-- can only help my understanding of the game compared to melee. Appreciate the educational replies.

Though, thinking of it, now I'm wondering at what moves might be safe on power shield (grabs aside, of course).

I can already tell you're one of the most thoughtful and objective players on the board. You're gonna learn fast and go far.

I might have oversimplified. There is shield pressure in this game, especially since several characters can break them fairly easily (Bowser, DK, Yoshi, etc). Power shielding does beat all that, but it's a very big risk for an average punish opportunity. I think it will be like SF3S where you can parry most supers, but that doesn't mean you will. What I should have said was that power shielding makes traditional shield pressure mostly irrelevant (projectile spam, spaced aerials and pokes).

Another thing you just reminded me of is the change to shield knockback, which is possibly even more influential than perfect shielding. In Melee and Brawl, you could push a shielding opponent off a platform, opening them up to attack. In Smash4, you can't do that with light attacks anymore, so that option for overwhelming a shield is gone.

One last option I see little mention of is empty jumps. I think management of landing lag frames beyond choosing the safest attack is going to be a big part of the meta. I expect empty jumps to become part of the mix up game, similar to pivot grabs.

Because the game is so read-heavy, maybe you could say that the ability to reliably KO is most important. You have me thinking now...

 

[Darklink401]

Pretty much nothing outside of multi-hits which makes powershielding irrelevant.

I actually think Smash 4's idea of using shield pressure is a step in the right direction. There's a good amount of moves that deal heavy shield damage (mostly relevant to heavy characters with Marcina being an outlier), while there are a good amount of moves that deal small, but rapid shield damage (Samus' Up-B comes to mind). I think this is a good thing, but it can be pushed even further to make shield pressure more relevant than it is now.

Simply put, shield regeneration is just too fast to take advantage of shield damage. I think if this had... I dunno, half of the regen speed it has now, it could make for some interesting play.

Jiggs tho?

And most shield breakers such as Marths...well...shieldbreaker, can actually break a shield in one go, if just a bit charged.

But since shields are so powerful in this game, shield pressure, Id say, is really important. Especially because breaking through your opponent's defenses just feels great.

 

[One Tilt]

Pretty much nothing outside of multi-hits which makes powershielding irrelevant.

I actually think Smash 4's idea of using shield pressure is a step in the right direction. There's a good amount of moves that deal heavy shield damage (mostly relevant to heavy characters with Marcina being an outlier), while there are a good amount of moves that deal small, but rapid shield damage Samus' Up-B comes to mind). I think this is a good thing, but it can be pushed even further to make shield pressure more relevant than it is now.

Simply put, shield regeneration is just too fast to take advantage of shield damage. I think if this had... I dunno, half of the regen speed it has now, it could make for some interesting play.

I suppose it then depends a bit on what attacks can and cannot additionally pressure power shields, then-- repeating jabs being the 'obvious' answer, but I even wonder at things like LM's Ftilt. Shield regen speed does make it a bit daunting to actually pressure it in a 'risk of breaking' sense, but I'm just feeling like the ability to force a foe out of shield is a key factor in what's keeping some characters on the back foot competitively. Whenever I find myself doing poorly with a character, it seems to be from a lack of shield pressure. Even if someone only has a single 'safe on power shield' move, I'd think that's just as valuable as easy frame trapping aerials-- not by any means necessary, but invaluable if you happen to have them. Any tools one has to break through defensive play in smash 4 seems important, though.

I can already tell you're one of the most thoughtful and objective players on the board. You're gonna learn fast and go far.

I might have oversimplified. There is shield pressure in this game, especially since several characters can break them fairly easily (Bowser, DK, Yoshi, etc). Power shielding does beat all that, but it's a very big risk for an average punish opportunity. I think it will be like SF3S where you can parry most supers, but that doesn't mean you will. What I should have said was that power shielding makes traditional shield pressure mostly irrelevant (projectile spam, spaced aerials and pokes).

Another thing you just reminded me of is the change to shield knockback, which is possibly even more influential than perfect shielding. In Melee and Brawl, you could push a shielding opponent off a platform, opening them up to attack. In Smash4, you can't do that with light attacks anymore, so that option for overwhelming a shield is gone.

One last option I see little mention of is empty jumps. I think management of landing lag frames beyond choosing the safest attack is going to be a big part of the meta. I expect empty jumps to become part of the mix up game, similar to pivot grabs.

Because the game is so read-heavy, maybe you could say that the ability to reliably KO is most important. You have me thinking now...

I'm just interested in correcting myself as quickly as possible. Better to advertise being spectacularly wrong than to stay misinformed for the sake of saving face.

The SF3 analogy of parrying supers sounds fantastically helpful as a comparison-- though I'm a bit more familiar with Soul Calibur and the guard impact mechanic (I've only ever watched SF, but I've played some SC, I mean). Not that I'm at all good at either, but I definitely know the 'parry' mechanic from both feels so much like smash 4 power shielding in that it takes a combination of prediction, reflexes, and timing (not necessarily in equal parts). I feel like risk when power-shielded is still a valid concern (Sheik's Ftilt is fairly safe on shield, power or otherwise, as you won't be hit by, say, Bowser's Fsmash before you can sneak another in if they drop their shield-- you mostly risk jabs/grabs), but part of the game may turn out to be using attacks that are hard for humans to react to due to unpredictability (WFT's animations, perhaps?) or speed or double-hitting, et cetera... though, that'd take months or years to really see.

Empty jumps are most definitely feeling like the a key 'feint' of smash 4's mindgame kit, though-- right there next to frame traps. The way the new shielding works (where it drops slower when the shield is not hit) means that baiting shields now becomes potentially rewarding as with baiting a roll, spotdodge, or air dodge. Timing mixups (those who have multiple options from a short hop) definitely seem to only strengthen the empty hop feint-- I'm excited to see the mindgames that develop around this. Though, feints like that are necessarily a bit difficult to practice. Still, something I'll be trying more... though, I feel like the lack of matchmaking in FG means I might end up over-predicting a bunch of newbies who'll be wondering what that lv 1 AI is doing just jumping at them. XD

Is KO power that important, though? Sheik feels to have it worse than just about anyone in that regard, yet feels to be pretty solid regardless... that said, Sheik's gimping game is pretty fantastic, which certainly helps. Ah, wait, the 'ability to reliably KO' has little to do with power, thinking of it-- gimping well is just as viable as a Bowser dropkick so long as it KOs, after all. Though, ability to keep from being KOed seems just as important (Little Mac), if nothing else.

Jiggs tho?

And most shield breakers such as Marths...well...shieldbreaker, can actually break a shield in one go, if just a bit charged.

But since shields are so powerful in this game, shield pressure, Id say, is really important. Especially because breaking through your opponent's defenses just feels great.

I may also be misusing the term 'sheild pressure'. I use it to mean 'how threatened the foe feels when blocking', rather than necessarily 'ability to ever break a shield'. Sheik can do the former, but not the latter, while Bowser is nearly vice versa with his laggy attacks but shield-chunking impacts.

---

I appreciate the earnest, helpful replies, by the way. Too many other games would have a page of dismissive trollposts beforehand, if there were any replies at all. It's beyond motivating to see how thoughtful smash's community here looks by comparison. ^^

 

[Darklink401]

@ One Tilt - Actually, when referring to breaking through shields, I was simply adding my two cents.

But then I mentioned that shields ARE powerful, so shield pressure is important, because if your opponent is hesitant to shield due to your fast, unpunishable attacks, they will leave themselves more open. By breaking through defenses, I meant the split second they slip up and drop their shield, then you punish them ;D

 

[One Tilt]

@ One Tilt - Actually, when referring to breaking through shields, I was simply adding my two cents.

But then I mentioned that shields ARE powerful, so shield pressure is important, because if your opponent is hesitant to shield due to your fast, unpunishable attacks, they will leave themselves more open. By breaking through defenses, I meant the split second they slip up and drop their shield, then you punish them ;D

Aaaah. My mistake. Just got some wires crossed in my weird habit of trying to reply to every post prior. XD

 

[Darklink401]

No problem ;D I think I needed to clarify my post a bit anyway ^-^

 

[ChillySundance]

I think shield pressure itself is less important than being able to confirm a win condition through a shield. aka, characters who are able to set up for KO's out of a quick grab.

That's why Diddy is so strong right now. If he grabs you at any percent, he can KO or convert that to heavy damage without fail. This allows him to essentially ignore a huge part of the opponents defensive options compared to other characters who have weaker followups from grabs.

Practically, Diddy has a 6 frame jab-ranged attack that ignores shields and kills at 120% and can deal upwards of 30% damage.

 

[KurashiDragon]

Shield Pressure? That could be a factor but it's way more complicated than that. Take what I say with a grain of salt because I cant play my 3ds right now and my Wii U isn't coming to me for another 11 days (A like to those that can math) but going into the "Ike is better than Pikachu" thing in the op, you should also consider that pikachu's options for footies and approach are arguably worse than Ikes. Ike's Fair and Nair are good spacing tools due to their auto cancel abilities and the large disjointed hitbox. Compared to that, Pikachu doesn't have any disjointed options that allow him to approach apart from Thunder jolt. Really, though I'd argue that the neutral game is unimportant at this point. I think the most important factory in Smash 4 viability is just how strong your advantage game is. For Pikachu, he has problems with killing and is relatively weak damage overall. Ike has the luxury of strong approach options and kill options. Diddy is just the best with both of these though, alot of tools to approach and a powerful combo game with a combo kill at that. (Down Throw Up Air) Alot of the top tiers actually have a very strong advantage game. One more thing you need to consider though is that a strong advantage game is offset by a weak Disadvantage game. Ike is the prime case of this. Between his bad recovery and ease of getting combo'd, he's fairly easily gimped and his strong aerial options can bit him because they can be slow and easy to predict at times. Pikachu's Disadvantage game is really only that he's light which is a problem but not as much of a problem and can be used to his advantage at some points making Pikachu's Disadvantage game better than Ikes.

TL;DR: It's really a combination of things that stems from the Advantage game. The neutral game doesn't seem to matter as much because most characters have a strong neutral game making it relatively balanced. Also consider though, that a bad disadvantage game can be a real detriment to a character.