Shield+ Grab versus Standard Grab - best to use in each situation

[Conda]

Hi, I'm trying to figure out how effective using shield+A to grab is conpared to performing a normal grab input (by pressing Z or R).

I find shield+A easier due to habit, but Im not sure in smash 4 if its good or bad to do so.

Which is better in the following uses:

**Standing grab**

- Z

OR

- Shield+A

**Dash grab**

- Pressing Z for dash grab animation

OR

- Pressing shield to dash cancel + A to grab

**Pivot Grab**

- Pressing Z to perform the grab after the pivot

OR

- Pressing shield + A to perform the grab after pivoting


^ For these three ways of grabbing, which offers superior range, speed, and end lag? Super curious.

 

[san.]

All are interchangeable. I use Z to minimize any input error. If you have no problems using Shield + A, there's nothing stopping you from using it. Shield + A seems a little more difficult with pivot grabs, but it wouldn't matter if you can get it down every time anyways.

One thing you're missing is a running standing grab where you do a dash+shield input, wait a few frames, then standing grab. It's good for characters with low friction and poor dash grab since you slide while shielding and keep that momentum during the grab. That requires shield + A of course.

 

[Chiroz]

Ok, I also have a question about this:

Normally dash grabs have better range and make you slide plus have a much wider time frame to land but they are normally slow to come out and are very laggy at the end. In past smash games you would cancel your run with a jump or shield into a grab, thus causing a "sliding stand grab" or "boost grab" or "JCG" whichever you prefer right?

In this game it seems that most characters don't have a different animation for dash grabs or am I wrong to think that? Link, Villager and Megaman seem to have the exact same animation in the demo whether I cancel the run or not. Mario seems to have a slightly different animation but I don't know if cancelling is actually helping the lag at all. The only real outlier is Pikachu which obviously has a very laggy dash grab.

Is there something I am missing, am I mistaken? Or is the animation for those characters I mentioned (Link,Megaman and Villager) actually the exact same whether you cancel or not?

 

[mimgrim]

Ok, I also have a question about this:

Normally dash grabs have better range and make you slide plus have a much wider time frame to land but they are normally slow to come out and are very laggy at the end. In past smash games you would cancel your run with a jump or shield into a grab, thus causing a "sliding stand grab" or "boost grab" or "JCG" whichever you prefer right?

In this game it seems that most characters don't have a different animation for dash grabs or am I wrong to think that? Link, Villager and Megaman seem to have the exact same animation in the demo whether I cancel the run or not. Mario seems to have a slightly different animation but I don't know if cancelling is actually helping the lag at all. The only real outlier is Pikachu which obviously has a very laggy dash grab.

Is there something I am missing, am I mistaken? Or is the animation for those characters I mentioned (Link,Megaman and Villager) actually the exact same whether you cancel or not?

All the dash grabs are slower then a normal grab. Some are just less slower then others and it is hard to tell for some of them but I've been able to notice a laggier dash grab for all the demo characters compared to their normal grab. Due to how fast shield comes during a run I'd say it's generally better to shield grab while running rather a normal dash grab.

 

[Conda]

All the dash grabs are slower then a normal grab. Some are just less slower then others and it is hard to tell for some of them but I've been able to notice a laggier dash grab for all the demo characters compared to their normal grab. Due to how fast shield comes during a run I'd say it's generally better to shield grab while running rather a normal dash grab.

When reading some guides, Robin for example, it was said their dash grab range was better than standing, and pivot grab was better than dash grab.

Wouldnt sticking to shield grabs hurt you in this instance? Or do shield grabs - always performing a standing grab - have benefits that make them better?

 

[mimgrim]

Standing grab is faster and less punishable. That's generally the reason they get used. There are a few instances where this isn't necessarily the case, Melee Peach's dash grab is just as fast as her standing grab so JC grabbing wasn't needed for her or Samus who has a faster and less punishable dash grab then standing grab, but most often a standing grab is better then a dash grab because they are less punishable and faster in general. Certain characters may be an exception to the rule, but the general rule is no less vlaid.

As for pivot grabs. They are always good because they almost always have close to double the range of a standing grab while being slightly slower then a standing grab but usually faster then a dash grab but are a bit more situational to use.

 

[Gunla]

I find myself often using the shield grabs over dash grabs.

With the grab out of shield, as mimigrim put it, it's a lot less punishable than the dash grab, which, given the right situation, can be severely punished. When playing the demo, I found that I would get punished easier for using a dash grab, but it was much harder for my opponent/the CPU to punish a shield grab.

It's not a readily noticeable difference with all characters, but it's enough of one to take note of.

 

[Conda]

I find myself often using the shield grabs over dash grabs.

With the grab out of shield, as mimigrim put it, it's a lot less punishable than the dash grab, which, given the right situation, can be severely punished. When playing the demo, I found that I would get punished easier for using a dash grab, but it was much harder for my opponent/the CPU to punish a shield grab.

It's not a readily noticeable difference with all characters, but it's enough of one to take note of.

Yeah, I've been doing shield grabs for forever - I hate having to dedicate a finger to a separate grab button. That's how I play haha, I'm a dork with my controls. The only finger that does more than one thing is the thumb - A, B, and c-stick.

My right index finger curls/claws onto the Y button to do jumps (i used to have it on the right shoulder button (GC), but the 'give' in the button made my jumps not responsive enough). My right middle finger does nothing - my right hand has enough going on. I find playing the 3ds demo hard because of this - i have to use my right ring finger to shield, when I want to use it for jumps.

Oh, and my left index finger uses the left shoulder button for shielding.

So that's why I use shield grabs- I don't like using the Z button, and dont want to dedicate my thumb to perform grabs with X. But I do have X allocated as a grab button, as well as Z - if i ever need to do a normal grab, either for air tethers or tether ledge recoveries, then I use X or Z (honestly I'm not sure which I depend on more, i rarely use either).

 

[Gunla]

Pre-Smash 3DS, I do most of my grabs Z/L- it's usually just how I'm feeling.

However, with the new layout of the 3DS version, I've grown more accustomed to using both Z and Shield+A, because I can literally just double tap R and press A the second time instead of hitting L and it's much easier for me to do to the point where going to practicing some PM, I've started to use Shield+A more often. I guess it's better to have the ability to utilize both functions for any sort of situation.

 

[Gea]

Just a small note that Brawl + this game read "grab" as "shield + A" being pressed. Likewise, the c-stick will be a direction + A instead of being a unique "smash" input. I dislike this because it makes controls sloppier, but whatever.

 

[mimgrim]

At least in Melee, though I think 64 is the same but I can't find info on it, also reads the grab button has shield + attack FYI, not just Brawl and Smash 4, because it's a macro of the combination. C-Stick is in the same boat and should be read like a macro in all the games as well. Just as an FYI.

 

[Gea]

It obviously handles at least the c-stick differently. Brawl you can do stupid things or have the c-stick not function correctly because of how it reads the input.