Shield Drop shine vs Shine OOS

[JeezImSoBored]

Shield Drop shine vs Shine OOS Which one is faster?

 

[BTmoney]

edit: gg me

 

[Knut]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQA7vbttZkQ#t=2m55s

edit: i do remember reading somewhere else that shield drop took 4 frames as well. according to this video, i guess you can attack out OoSDrop on frame 2 though.

 

[BTmoney]

whoops I was wrong. I came back to edit my post because I checked that same video but you got it

 

[4 Aces]

Question about shield dropping after someone hitting your shield:
Should you do the slight downward input after getting hit by an attack, or should you do it before/during the hit (hitlag, I suppose), that way you buffer it?

 

[JeezImSoBored]

so why aren't people shield drop shine or shield drop triple bair -ing on platforms???????????? i would have expected someone to master this by now

 

[Bones0]

Shield Drop shine vs Shine OOS Which one is faster?

Shine drop is faster. You can go immediately from shield to shine (1 frame) if you shine drop. A grounded shine OoS has 5 frames of jumpsquat before you are airborne and can shine.

Question about shield dropping after someone hitting your shield:
Should you do the slight downward input after getting hit by an attack, or should you do it before/during the hit (hitlag, I suppose), that way you buffer it?

When you get hit by an attack, you and the opponent both undergo hitlag first (if it's an electric attack like Falcon's knee, you will have twice as much hitlag as the opponent attacking you). After hitlag, the opponent continues moving while you undergo shield stun (based on the damage of the attack that you shielded). You should input your shield drop at the end of shield stun. The buffer for shield drops is ~3 frames. It's not a true buffer like holding C-stick while shielding, so you still have to time it as best as you can, but if you're a little early it won't mess you up.

so why aren't people shield drop shine or shield drop triple bair -ing on platforms???????????? i would have expected someone to master this by now

I did. I'm still working on shine-landing my shine drops so I can JC without DJing though.

 

[ElloEddy]

shield drop is easier to me ...shine oos is so ****ing hard man
and i play with ppl who can shield drop shine just as good as the best Shield drop shine is ridiculously fast

 

[4 Aces]

Shine drop is faster. You can go immediately from shield to shine (1 frame) if you shine drop. A grounded shine OoS has 5 frames of jumpsquat before you are airborne and can shine.



When you get hit by an attack, you and the opponent both undergo hitlag first (if it's an electric attack like Falcon's knee, you will have twice as much hitlag as the opponent attacking you). After hitlag, the opponent continues moving while you undergo shield stun (based on the damage of the attack that you shielded). You should input your shield drop at the end of shield stun. The buffer for shield drops is ~3 frames. It's not a true buffer like holding C-stick while shielding, so you still have to time it as best as you can, but if you're a little early it won't mess you up.



I did. I'm still working on shine-landing my shine drops so I can JC without DJing though.

I see. Thanks.

Anyone have a video comparison of these two tech's? Or at least one on just Shield drop --> Immediate Shine (Shine drop)? I don't think I've personally seen it before.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

yo my drops are rusty as hell
so basically a shine drop is a grounded shine on a platform and you drop right? simple or is this not one?

and whats the "proper" way for shield dropping
is it diagonal and slightly in -> down????
need help on my plats
and shine landing is pretty hard

 

[Bones0]

I see. Thanks.

Anyone have a video comparison of these two tech's? Or at least one on just Shield drop --> Immediate Shine (Shine drop)? I don't think I've personally seen it before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HZ2n-179q8#t=2m13s

yo my drops are rusty as hell
so basically a shine drop is a grounded shine on a platform and you drop right? simple or is this not one?

and whats the "proper" way for shield dropping
is it diagonal and slightly in -> down????
need help on my plats
and shine landing is pretty hard

Your shine drop won't actually be grounded unless you wait a few frames before shining and then wait a few frames after shining to actually land on the platform.
There is no proper way to shield drop as long as you can do it. I prefer going at an angle because I feel like I have more control, plus I often want to aerial drift left or right as I drop through. Don't worry about shine landing. It's not that important.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

every thing technical oos and on plats
its all about feels and what your comfortable with
and for shine oos what is your goal cuz a grounded double shine oos would be just as good at disrupting pressure as a jump shine-> waveland on a top plat
i guess what ever gets you out of the way to reset,

 

[JeezImSoBored]

with the speed of shield drop shine, if someone hit your shield you should be able to hit them everytime right? so it doesn't really matter if you are standing or in air since u can just combo from there imo

 

[JeezImSoBored]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HZ2n-179q8#t=2m13s

wow i dont think anyone would have noticed if u didnt say

 

[DuckPimp]

(if it's an electric attack like Falcon's knee, you will have twice as much hitlag as the opponent attacking you).

I'd actually like to double-check the accuracy of this statement, as I know there is an extremely common misconception of "electric" attacks and hitstun, although I'm not entirely sure if it's this statement specifically. I'm fairly certain that whether an attack is "electric" (or any other visual effect) or not is independent from the amount of hitstun and shieldstun of the move. IIRC the correlation is coincidental or a result of confirmation bias.

However, this doesn't detract from your overall point, that the shield drop needs to be delayed until after shield-stun (taking the "buffer" window into account), which afaik is otherwise correct.

 

[BTmoney]

every thing technical oos and on plats
its all about feels and what your comfortable with
and for shine oos what is your goal cuz a grounded double shine oos would be just as good at disrupting pressure as a jump shine-> waveland on a top plat
i guess what ever gets you out of the way to reset,

Not true, it obviously takes more time to jump from your shield and shine in the air than it does to jump from your shine and shine right after your jump squat frames are over before you are airborne.

Escaping pressure or picking OOS options is really about knowing what can fit into certain windows and it's in your best interesting to do thing as fast as possible

 

[Bones0]

I'd actually like to double-check the accuracy of this statement, as I know there is an extremely common misconception of "electric" attacks and hitstun, although I'm not entirely sure if it's this statement specifically. I'm fairly certain that whether an attack is "electric" (or any other visual effect) or not is independent from the amount of hitstun and shieldstun of the move. IIRC the correlation is coincidental or a result of confirmation bias.

However, this doesn't detract from your overall point, that the shield drop needs to be delayed until after shield-stun (taking the "buffer" window into account), which afaik is otherwise correct.

My source:

Electric attacks have more hitlag for the victim than for the attacker. Normal attacks have equal hitlag for both players (unless it's an article like Fox/Falco's side-b, Sheik's Up-B, or any projectile, in which case only the victim has hitlag). Electric moves are the only case where hitlag has to even be considered when calculating frame advantage, as hitlag is different for the attacker and victim.

Unstaled perfect knee (land frame after hitlag ends) gives +4 on block after landing lag. To put it in perspective, it would be +0 if it weren't electric and the damage/landing lag was the same.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

i want to play like zhu and westballz
those two players have cool playstyles
they are pretty safe and less agro like shiz
while westballz does do work on shines
i want to adapt and win the neutral game cuz i dont think i will be doing anything spactacular that makes me who i am
#justanotherfalco
i want to learn
i didnt come here to win evo
i came here to learn
#turtlehermitway