Shield Cancel

[JFox]

Someone asked about this in Cort's thread, so I thought I'd post it so people that are uninformed can know about it.

Quick lesson on the peach's "jump cancel". First, how it works.

Peach's double jump first goes down before it goes up. So when you jump from the ground, than quickly do a double jump, the double jump will push you back down into the ground and you will land. You will see peach do a quick stutter motion looking like she is about to jump, and all of a sudden she is back in standing position.

To perform, simply press X or Y twice in quick succession (I suggest you don't use Up on the control stick simply because it will hinder your ability to move or attack quickly after the jump cancel. It has to be fast enough that you don't ever get off the ground before the double jump input.

Uses:

When you shield, there is a slight lag between dropping the shield and putting out an attack. (Notice how in brawl people can attack out of their shields faster because there is less shield drop lag) In order to get out of a shield without going through the shield drop lag, people jump out. Now because peach is the only character with a jump cancel, she can technically get out of shield faster than any other character because of this technique.

When this technique is done out of a shield, some call it a "shield cancel" (SC). You can SC dsmash, you can SC fsmash, you can even just SC in to a dash attack, or even just start running.

 

[Rosedemon]

Oh, nice. Seems interesting, and an easier/faster way to punish poor spacing.

 

[XIF]

i dunno... FC nair out of sheild is much safer and faster.

 

[Kouryuu]

^^^ agreed.

 

[JFox]

i dunno... FC nair out of sheild is much safer and faster.

XIF, sometimes its better to do other things besides FC Nair out of shield. Against heavy characters you can get multiple hits with dsmash, and it knocks them into a tech chase.

To be honest though, I would say FC nair is the better option to punish the lag of an attack. That doesn't mean its not useful however. For example, often times good players will pressure you by just waiting for you to make a move, causing you to put up a pre-emptive shield. Than people will sometimes run in for a grab when they see your shield pop up. Most people in this case would roll or spot dode, so people sometimes wait for a roll/spotdodge, than move in. The advantage here is simply giving peach another option in these situations. You can dsmash out of shield to punish someone trying to grab. You can dash attack someone out of shield who is waiting for you to roll or spotdodge.

Here's a scenario- you're on a platform and your opponent is below you. Most people will wait for a dsmash here, then punish in the lag. But put up your shield, and watch how quick people are to jump through that platform. Putting up your shield than dsmash'ing out can trick your opponent into jumping right into a 50% hit.

In theory, this isn't the vital to peach's game, but it certainly gives you options, and its different so people won't see stuff like this coming. Can you play without wavedashing? Sure. But does it help you situationally? Absolutely. Same thing here. Its all about options.

 

[Requiem]

Why is xif suddenly posting again I havent seen him for ****ing ages... o_o

Didnt you dissapear sometime before brawl released?...man this peach board used to be so awesome....Except for Dark.pch random emo outbursts.

 

[XIF]

i never disappeared, i've been to most of the major Melee tournaments recently...

and by that I mean I was at Greatest Melee tournament Since Brawl Came Out, and Pound 3 before that, and local GA/FL tournaments <_<;

I definitely stopped posting back here because... of what you just said and also I got bored of the Cort topic spam and general boring/dumb things here. I kinda like it again since the top 10 peaches topic came back up and the pink shinobi one is here.

as for the jc d smash vs fc nair...

The whole point of a fighting game is to mazimize reward and minimize risk, and the fact is that it's so much better to FC nair than jc d smash in almost every respect. Your under the platform example, most people will (and very easily) just wait for the d smash. About as predictable as a falco opening a match with a SHL, is peach trying to go for a platform d smash. FC nairing in that situation, even if they wait, you can put your sheild up or run again almost immediately. The start up and cool down is far longer for d smash than for FC nair, cause you have the jump animation, dj, land lag (4 frames if you're just landing), and d smash has obviously more cool down than FC nair. You can start attacking at like frame 10 or 11 with nair as opposed to 15-16 with jc d smash, and the former has a paltry 4 frames of land lag.

and now I'll be quiet before I sound more like Mew2King.

 

[JFox]

XIF, if you wanted to maximize reward and minimize risk, the best reward would be that which does most damage to the opponent. Hitting with a single nair is not all that rewarding because its very hard to follow up and only does a minimal amount of damage. There are definitely situations where a dsmash would be far better to maximize reward.

For example, if a fox dash attacks through your shield and gets onto the other side of your shield so you cant shield grab, you now are left with the option to FC a nair/bair OR dsmash. Unless they are at high percent, I'm gonna go with the dsmash.

I know that these are very situational scenarios, but its about options. Why sell yourself short and limit yourself to only float cancels when there could be a better option?

Honestly, I think people are just too lazy to get good at this. And thats fine. But don't come in here and say that its not useful. Perhaps its not the most important thing in the world, but then again neither is L cancelling, yet I still recommend people be capable of doing it in those necessary situations.

 

[XIF]

XIF, if you wanted to maximize reward and minimize risk, the best reward would be that which does most damage to the opponent. Hitting with a single nair is not all that rewarding because its very hard to follow up and only does a minimal amount of damage. There are definitely situations where a dsmash would be far better to maximize reward.

For example, if a fox dash attacks through your shield and gets onto the other side of your shield so you cant shield grab, you now are left with the option to FC a nair/bair OR dsmash. Unless they are at high percent, I'm gonna go with the dsmash.

I know that these are very situational scenarios, but its about options. Why sell yourself short and limit yourself to only float cancels when there could be a better option?

Honestly, I think people are just too lazy to get good at this. And thats fine. But don't come in here and say that its not useful. Perhaps its not the most important thing in the world, but then again neither is L cancelling, yet I still recommend people be capable of doing it in those necessary situations.

The risk outweighs the reward. Thats the point.

Nair already does like 12 or 15% (I forget exactly). Each d smash hit does about 12%. Any decent fox player will not get hit more than twice by the d smash at 0%, meaning you get a paltry extra 12% and thats if the fox is below 30%.

On top of that, I don't even think you can djc to d smash quick enough to beat foxes shine anyway. It's hard enough to get an FC nair in that situation. You have to deal with the sheild stun from the dash attack.

And I couldn't disagree more with your comment about l-cancelling. Unless you're jiggs, peach, samus, or luigi, missing l-cancel can mean losing a stock, easy. L-cancelling is so crucial to avoid punishments and sheild cancelling, it'd be ludicrous to say it isnt that important.

shffling, and by definition l-cancelling, is probably the most important skill in the game to master. nearly the entire cast NEEDS shffling to be good.

 

[JFox]

And I couldn't disagree more with your comment about l-cancelling. Unless you're jiggs, peach, samus, or luigi, missing l-cancel can mean losing a stock, easy. L-cancelling is so crucial to avoid punishments and sheild cancelling, it'd be ludicrous to say it isnt that important.

shffling, and by definition l-cancelling, is probably the most important skill in the game to master. nearly the entire cast NEEDS shffling to be good.

I was actually referring to a peach player learning to l cancel, not a fox player.

I think you should try the shield cancel before you judge it. You'll find that its a lot faster than it sounds in theory.

 

[XIF]

I was actually referring to a peach player learning to l cancel, not a fox player.

I think you should try the shield cancel before you judge it. You'll find that its a lot faster than it sounds in theory.

I did... in 2006.