Shiek Matchup Help

[TheJigglyfat]

A few of the people in my play group are starting to learn to play Shiek and I have no idea how to deal with her. She's always been a character I've struggled against, but now that we were starting to really learn how to play (Implenting L-Cancleing, wave-dashing, SHFFLing etc into gameplay) I am even more at a loss of what to do.

Our meta has become fairly defensive and it's hard to find openings. Approaching from the ground is basically impossible because of needles. If I do get a lucky grab I can tech chase my down throw maybe 5 times, but at that point I lose it and we are back where we started. If I approach from the air my friends just shield grab me and combo me.

I realized that I can't play on any of the open stages like smashville or FD, otherwise I'm complete combo food and I have no ledges to mix-up my movement. I deal with her much better on Battlefield like stages, but that's purely because I can be very unpredictable with wave-land approaches from the ledges. That only works 50% of the time and that chance becomes worse the longer we play and the better we get at reading each other.

Is there any reliable way for me to approach Shiek or am I going to have to go with the counterpick plan, or maybe even find a secondary for her?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[UMR | donmk]

The match up is quite similar to how it was in Melee. Main things are to stay on the ground as much as possible and try to keep her above you. Have a look at This thread to see some slightly more in depth tips on the match up.

I find personally that I love FD against Sheik because once you've got her above you, you can almost guarantee the kill since she has no platforms to escape to. If you are getting consistently combo'd by Sheik on FD, I'd suggest working on your DI, both in terms of how effectively you're DIing her moves as well as how much you can mix up your DI. Remember that you (generally) want to DI away from her throws, which makes her d throw/b throw mix up annoying unless you're vigilant.

As for approaching, neither character really likes to do it in this matchup, but only one has needles to throw. This means you need to bait Sheik into doing something and punishing it. Dash dance around your tipper length, mix up some wavedashes and try to bait. Dtilt is useful when she tries to approach you and you've slightly messed up the spacing.

 

[TheJigglyfat]

Thank you. I guess I need to start using D-Tilt. What if shiek is refusing to take the bait. Just sitting back and throwing needles. Do i look for an opportunity to punish between needles throws? Or should I just try to do something different with my movement to fake her out and make her think something is up?

 

[UMR | donmk]

This is where you start playing against the player. You have a few options to deal with needles (shield into wavedash, spot dodge, crouch cancel to name a few), and you should try all of these, see how your opponent reacts and then adjust.

The thing about this matchup is that both characters can punish the other so hard that damage is usually less important than stage position. If you have centre stage and your opponent is near the ledge, you should try to maintain positional advantage. The worst thing you can do is rush at her, get hit by needles, grabbed into back throw and suddenly your advantageous position has turned into you off stage against sheik.

 

[Charby]

The only thing you need to know : DTilt

 

[Deleted member]

dashdance spam

fair her if shes in the air

dtilt and grab her on the ground

upthrow her a lot and go for juggles

block needles

 

[Mijah]

I'm having trouble with this matchup too. People at weeklies just counterpick me game 2 with sheik. I have trouble spacing me DD due to her speed. Thanks to everyone who gave advice above.

 

[Vandire]

Literally what they said above. Poke her feet with your sword.

 

[V]

dashdance spam

fair her if shes in the air

dtilt and grab her on the ground

The tl;dr guide to Marth's neutral game vs basically the whole cast.

 

[Deleted member]

The tl;dr guide to Marth's neutral game vs basically the whole cast.

you'd be amazed at the capacity for players to **** it up too

 

[V]

@Umbreon With how easy dash dancing and fox trotting are coupled with RARing and brawl's pivot grab I don't understand why any Marth player in PM wouldn't have an amazing neutral game.

 

[Preacher]

The best way to beat sheik is to rely on dash dancing and grabs because she can't do either anywhere near as well as marth. Crouch cancel her attacks whenever you can, then grab and fight for position instead of damage when she's at low percents. Space with d-tilt when you're close then possibly grab as a follow up (you can move forward after a d-tilt faster than you can in any other direction because of IASA frames). Never be in the air if sheik is on the ground as you have a disadvantage, but this works both ways. Only jump when you're blow sheik or you can follow up on a combo in the air. Stay close and apply pressure with d-tilt and grabs for the game and make sure she can use needles as little as possible.

The best way to kill sheik is to edge guard her. Because you're new to the matchup it's alright to just grab the ledge. Get up normally if she's close enough for her recovery to do damage and then try to forward smash her off stage when she's defenseless and repeat.

Always remember you have greater mobility, greater range, and, if you space right, greater pressure. And if you really want to learn a lot about this matchup and how awesome it is you can follow this guide.

www,meleeitonme,com/guest-article-marth-vs-sheik-guide/

(replace the commas with . because I'm not allowed to post links yet)