Sheik Thresholds

[Scroll]

What are some Sheik specific % thresholds I can keep as a rule of thumb?
What can I do at 0%? What can't be done at 120%?
At what percentage can I no longer crouch cancel?
At what percentage should I start DI'ing for survival?
Any other key things to take note of? Both defensively and offensively.

 

[MooMoo_Cowfreak]

I am hardly well versed at Sheik, but around 120% or so is the optimal set up for a dthrow into short hop fair for the kill. It varies between characters, but seeing as this is such an essential kill move it's worth looking into! I know it's a higher percent for sure on the Spacies.

You should probably always try to DI for survival, especially just to get used to DI in general.

Short hop nairs are really great in the neutral game; if your opponent shields it you can DI yourself backwards during your attack to avoid the shield grab they are likely going to throw, then you can punish it with a move of your own (ftilt is a nice easy option). Good luck!

 

[BO/\K]

Fox gets knocked down by fresh ftilt at 24%

 

[Scroll]

thanks for all the input!

I am looking to make a marginal, rule of thumb, table like this (EXAMPLE):
A more indepth table would be way too complex and can only be learned to near perfection with ALOT of practice and MU experience and can probably not even fit into a table.

Defense
0-20% CC, Shield
20-40% combo DI, SDI, Shield, Spotdodge, WD back
40-70% Shield, Spot Dodge, Teching
70-115% Survival DI
115%+ Pray for your life
Offense
0-20%? Needle, Grab+techchasing, OOS attacks,
20-40% DA, Ftilt, OOS attacks, SH Fair -> Grab, FH needle -> grab
40-70% DA -> Fair, Dtilt, Utilt, Gimp, Edge Guarding
70-115% Ftilt -> Fair, Downthrow -> Aerial, Edge Guarding
115%+ Uair Dsmash and Usmash unlocks as kill moves

Ofcourse this is VERY rough and not to be taken too seriously (some stuff may even seem dumb haha), not mentioning it varies with every MU, floaties, fastfallers etc. But I'd like to have inputs on what is simply wrong and what can be added. It would make a GREAT start for improving a beginner/intermediate's (like myself) gameplay.
I'll probably add the table to the top post once I am happy with it.

 

[Scroll]

Can I please have someone take a look at my table and correct any horrible mistakes + add obvious stuff I miss? Is the table simply dumb? Any input will be appreciated! Thanks

 

[BO/\K]

You have tilt combos listed in 20-40%, but only ftilt knocks down in that window. Utilt and dtilt start knocking down in the 40s (all referring to fox since that's the only one I have a source for). Also SH fair is good at low percents too even if it doesn't knock down. The hitstun is big and can get you a grab.

 

[Palmerfan]

Playing offensive as Sheik is really not a great idea unless you're significantly better than your opponent. It's great as a change of pace to catch your opponent off guard, but the majority of Sheik's tools are in her punish game and edgeguarding game. You're better off reacting to/reading your opponent and getting openings that way instead of running in with a dash attack, aerial, or tilt. I think your chart is a bit off because of the way it's structured, as what's offense and what's defense isn't always black and white. Is running up and faking an approach, then WDing back to set up your opponent for a punish offense or defense? What about shino stalling until they do something stupid?

 

[Scroll]

Playing offensive as Sheik is really not a great idea unless you're significantly better than your opponent. It's great as a change of pace to catch your opponent off guard, but the majority of Sheik's tools are in her punish game and edgeguarding game. You're better off reacting to/reading your opponent and getting openings that way instead of running in with a dash attack, aerial, or tilt. I think your chart is a bit off because of the way it's structured, as what's offense and what's defense isn't always black and white. Is running up and faking an approach, then WDing back to set up your opponent for a punish offense or defense? What about shino stalling until they do something stupid?

I completely agree with you.
But you need to rack up damage somehow and that is off of your punishes like you say. Now what do you punish with? That is what the offensive table is for.
The defensive table is for how to avoid taking damage/ minimizing damage taken thus optimizing your chance of getting that punish.

Looking at the defensive table again, it looks the most odd and non intuitive and unprecise/incorrect.
For example, SDI should be applied on most of all hits taken, so it cant really be put in a specific bracket.

But I like the offensive part. Going into a given fight I now have a plan when the fight starts:

To begin with I'll rack up damage using needles, CC'ing possibly into a grab, jab once or twice then Dthrow -> Techchase until he reaches 20-40%. Now I can start using my Ftilt which will knock him over. Same goes for DA. While I do this untill he reaches 40%+, I'll avoid his attacks /minimize losses by dodging and shielding WD'ing and teching.
At 40%+ I can now punish him and reliably get him off stage, with combos such as DA->SHFF Fair, Dtilt OOS->SHFF Fair etc. Grab->back throw and edge guard him. In this process I should succeed to edgeguard to take the stock, or as his % racks up further my Fair becomes more and more powerful as a kill move.
If I keep not being successfull with my edge guard at 115%+ the Fair setups will start to send him too high to actually Fair him out of it so I need to techchase him into an Upsmash or Dsmash as s kill move or possible edge guard, or dthrow->Fair or even something clunky as Dair->Upair or the like

 

[dude it's raining]

This is definitely what I'm trying to work on myself. I've gotten to the point where I'm no longer satisfied just sort of winging and feeling the combos. I want to know when I'm missing something. So I'm gonna start beating up cpus and taking note of what works when. I'll try my best to help with this. But school's starting again soon, but that means somebody will have a GC and I can get off of dolphin...

 

[Scroll]

Awesome. Welcome aboard! Any notes are welcome

 

[Drephen]

shiek usually dies when over 200%

 

[dude it's raining]

The 20xx training pack's debug hitstun coloring really helps you see at what percentages certain things should work.