Sheik in 2v2

[sFoster]

Ok I am a Zelda main, and I believe Zelda shines most brightly in 2v2.
I also play with team attack on, like any self respecting player should..

Now at this point I acknowledge sheik may be at a larger advantage against some characters 1v1.. but I find myself unsure about sheik in a 2v2 environment.

It's like Zelda was built with exactly that kind of situation in mind.
Do you guys find Sheik fares well in 2v2? If so, how do you use her?

I'll just say a few things about what makes Zelda so amazing 2v2..
Her Smashes last a long time, and can catch multiple people in them.
Nayru's Love can redirect your opponents positions on the board quite easily (for example, caught between two opponents? you can throw them both on the same side of you by just pressing special)

Her teleport is GODLIKE. In a tight spot? Just teleport away. You don't have to run through hazardous terrain. Or.. See an opponent on the other side of the map with 100 damage? Just teleport there and then kill them.. there is no dificulty in moving around for offense or defense.

There are more things I could say, but this is a Sheik forum not Zelda and I just wanted to give some initial context for our discussion. I have given it thought and it doesn't seem like Sheik can measure up 2v2, but you guys know her a lot better than I do, so I've come for your input.

Thanks

 

[Tristan_win]

Even though Zelda has an easier time killing in the lower percentages then Sheik she in my opinion should not be used to start to finish in most matches up’s.

1. Because how inflexible her recovery is she can be easily gimp in the lower percentages. Most 2v2 are very unorganized and getting hit by something as simple as a down smash can have drastic consequences for a Zelda unless immediate action is taken (DI up). One simple mistake can cause you a stock or a good amount of damage.

This is not true for Sheik as her jumps give her quick vertical recovery and with the options of tether and up^ recoveries Sheik mains will less likely receive a lower percentage death then a Zelda main and odds are not get hit as often upon recovery.

2. When playing with Zelda you want everything nice and neat so you can respond accordantly, but if you get into a scenario where 2 more players are near you Zelda is greatly limited. With her long lasting attacks it only make it easier for your allies to fall into them, which will deal unnecessary damage that could be much easier avoid if you used Sheik.

3. In the Zelda forum the players talk about how din fire is such a great move in doubles well this not the case. Because of its growth in size as it travels it because increasing difficult to not hit your friends if they are fighting with an opponent. Din fire is also not too effective close range accouters as well because it can be neutralized by attacks. Either used for defensively or offensively Din fire is no longer as useful, which is big for the Zelda Meta game.

Personally, I think in doubles Sheik needles are about even with Zelda’s in the lower percents as ground needles do not leave Sheik as open as din fire does and they do roughly around the same amount of damage but the odds of not hitting your friend with them is about the same.

4. Zelda can not gimp people in the low percents. Yes she can kill around the hundreds with her ground and aerials but between 0 to 90 damage odds are you won’t be scoring any kills, ever. Sheik on the other hand has great low percentage gimp potential when compared to Zelda’s.

Overall I would recommend a mix team of Sheik doing the damage until the higher percents before transforming into Zelda for a quick kill. If your opponents use characters who aren’t particular fast or hard rack damage on for Zelda then it would be most likely wisest to stick to Zelda though.

By the way a Zelda/Sheik team is beastly as you can both start as Sheik, rack up a good 100 or so damage before having one player transform. When transforming the other player can guard until completed then do a quick transformation of their own since the character data will be already loaded.

 

[sFoster]

Even though Zelda has an easier time killing in the lower percentages then Sheik she in my opinion should not be used to start to finish in most matches up’s.

1. Because how inflexible her recovery is she can be easily gimp in the lower percentages. Most 2v2 are very unorganized and getting hit by something as simple as a down smash can have drastic consequences for a Zelda unless immediate action is taken (DI up). One simple mistake can cause you a stock or a good amount of damage.

This is not true for Sheik as her jumps give her quick vertical recovery and with the options of tether and up^ recoveries Sheik mains will less likely receive a lower percentage death then a Zelda main and odds are not get hit as often upon recovery.

Zelda's Up-Special is not as bad as you make it out to be. You have 3 options, really.
One is to sweet spot the ledge, which is as safe as you can get.. another is to teleport above the ledge and land on ground, which can be dangerous in some situations and get you killed as you've mentioned. Third option is to ledge warp and reappear without lag, but that is extremely difficult and so not really plausible in regular circumstances.

I will admit the tether is nice, but generally if you're close enough to tether I think Zelda's recovery will get you back safely.

2. When playing with Zelda you want everything nice and neat so you can respond accordantly, but if you get into a scenario where 2 more players are near you Zelda is greatly limited. With her long lasting attacks it only make it easier for your allies to fall into them, which will deal unnecessary damage that could be much easier avoid if you used Sheik.

If things get messy you can teleport out, or you can use naryu's to rearrange the crowd.

3. In the Zelda forum the players talk about how din fire is such a great move in doubles well this not the case. Because of its growth in size as it travels it because increasing difficult to not hit your friends if they are fighting with an opponent. Din fire is also not too effective close range accouters as well because it can be neutralized by attacks. Either used for defensively or offensively Din fire is no longer as useful, which is big for the Zelda Meta game.

Personally, I think in doubles Sheik needles are about even with Zelda’s in the lower percents as ground needles do not leave Sheik as open as din fire does and they do roughly around the same amount of damage but the odds of not hitting your friend with them is about the same.

I play with team attack on and use Din's all of the time. In fact in FFA's I generally pick somebody out of a crowd and only hit 1 person with dins at a time.. This makes it so the whole group doesn't get pissed off and rush me.

One advantage over the needles are that dins can actually pass THROUGH your teammate, since it doesn't do damage until it explodes. You're given much more control this way.

Imagine this Setup: Zelda --> Teammate --> Opponent --> Opponent
You can basically cut off any possibility of retreat by shooting near the backside.. in a situation like this though the needles are rendered basically useless.

One thing you are right on though is Zelda is left open during dins. You generally have to pay closer attention when you decide to use it, and also you want to make sure it's in the air while you're moving around instead of just standing on the ground in one place.

4. Zelda can not gimp people in the low percents. Yes she can kill around the hundreds with her ground and aerials but between 0 to 90 damage odds are you won’t be scoring any kills, ever. Sheik on the other hand has great low percentage gimp potential when compared to Zelda’s.

Alright I have to straight up disagree with this point..
Zelda has 2 moves that kill way below 100. Fair and Bair.
We're talking kills between 40-60 damage depending on character weight.

Also she has a killer spike - something that sheik is missing.
There are definitely options for low damage kills here.

Overall I would recommend a mix team of Sheik doing the damage until the higher percents before transforming into Zelda for a quick kill. If your opponents use characters who aren’t particular fast or hard rack damage on for Zelda then it would be most likely wisest to stick to Zelda though.

By the way a Zelda/Sheik team is beastly as you can both start as Sheik, rack up a good 100 or so damage before having one player transform. When transforming the other player can guard until completed then do a quick transformation of their own since the character data will be already loaded.

I guess I just feel a little overwhelmed and defenseless with sheik against a crowd.
How agressive do you play her in groups?

 

[TrikELotus]

My Sheik has always shined in 2v2, but it's all really personal play style. Lately, though, I've been experimenting with 2v2 toon switches and seeing how my Zelda can play in 2v2. I'm pro-Sheik in this discussion but I lack Zelda experience.

 

[R1ngo]

2v2 switches are VERY hard to do unless both of your opponents are dead, or they are terrible, i have been using sheik to be a damage dealer and have my partner try to do most of the killing, it works for our playstyle, besides, when you get lucky enough to tilt lock 2 ppl at the same time you can't ask for much more