Secondaries for Mario

[SmokeOut]

So I'm not sure is the type of character that can be solo mained. He has pretty bad match ups against disjoints, sword characters in particular. So I was thinking of investing more time into another character to cover those match ups. My current favorites next to Mario are , and . Which of these 3, if any, do you think compliments Mario as a secondary and can cover his bad match ups? If none of these, then list who you think would work and why.

 

[Guljy]

I think yours are good but my opinion is of you can't beat them, join them and I use cloud (honestly more than Mario now but not always)

 

[SmokeOut]

Yeah, but I never really liked sword characters all too much in smash. The reason I listed some of the other characters I play is because I was hoping to still be able to play a character I can enjoy. I personally don't care much for sword or zoning/projectile heavy characters.

 

[Guljy]

Yeah, but I never really liked sword characters all too much in smash. The reason I listed some of the other characters I play is because I was hoping to still be able to play a character I can enjoy. I personally don't care much for sword or zoning/projectile heavy characters.

Inkling could be really cool as long as you play them as a rush down combo character and not a zoner because they can be both.

 

[Wumbo105]

To become passably good with more than one character takes an immense amount of time. And the truth is, 90% of players don't have that kind of time. Your time is better well spent devoting to Mario and mastering him completely before looking for another backup.

Secondaries are mostly used for matchups that are basically hard counters and are almost unwinnable with the main char...and Mario has none of those. He does have tough matchups like Marcina/Olimar/Cloud, but they are manageable. Put more time into learning your main is my advice.

 

[SmokeOut]

I hear you. I was more or less curious to see what other's opinions were on the subject. I'm still focusing mostly on Mario and I still have a ways to go before I feel it's necessary to pick up someone else. You sure about Mario not needing a secondary though? It's not that I think those matchups are unwinnable, but Mario has always had a hell of a time against disjoints and so many of the popular characters these days have just that. Really, only high level players should worry about it, but I think it never hurts to have extra characters in the pocket to switch things up if it's not going your way.

 

[Wumbo105]

I'm positive he doesn't need one. I'm not saying you absolutely shouldn't have a secondary, I'm just saying that the time you spend on learning that secondary will be better spent in the long run if you invest it into Mario instead,

If your sole goal is to get further in bracket ASAP and you know you're going to face one of the tough matchups, then sure go for the pocket pick. But Mario can overcome any matchup so mastery is possible.

 

[DunnoBro]

Cloud's often considered the best secondary, if any for Mario.

Due to his favorable (or at least easier to play out) matchups vs the swordies/yoshi/etc.
And also overlap in playstyle/coverage so practicing one can help the other.

While a secondary may not be needed, I do think most marios would benefit from at least a 4fun Cloud.

 

[Kiligar]

I might be biased as a Pit main, but he honestly puts in work vs sword characters. Pit doesn’t carry you to win, your skill will show in the match. But his disjoints, while slightly smaller than FE swordie get the job done, his strong whiff punish game is excellent v swordies with his great grab combos/frame data, and his arrows offstage gimp the entire FE cast+Cloud bar the rare Robin.

Cobalt’s playstyle is solid when it comes to Pit, sometimes he isn’t aggressive enough though. A Dark Pit player whom I haven’t seen for some time but I consider one of the best DP’s out there shows how Cloud can struggle v Pit’s aerials. At the start Cloud begins strong but the true victor is quickly revealed, and this is all done without Pit’s superior gimping prowess.

 

[Felancius]

As a Mario main, I've personally found as an amazing secondary for Mario, as DeDeDe covers a lot of matchups that Mario otherwise would lose to, like the FE crowd. It might just be me though, given I hear people say DeDeDe has trouble against other sword users, but... I haven't really seen it, though Mario can handle some of his tough matchups too, like Bayonetta.

is also a pretty good choice I've found for covering against some other characters that are otherwise hard for Mario to deal with such as Meta Knight or Mario dittos.

Speaking of Mario dittos, if you really find yourself having trouble against the Mario crowd for whatever reason, basically tears them apart along with some of the matchups that Mario struggles, so you could try using him. Ike also is someone you really want to consider with the secondary too since he's arguably Mario's worst matchup.

 

[xwingz900]

Let me give you a few options (all of this is my opinion of course so feel free to disagree)

If you want to counter Swords:
He does surprisingly well against Marcina especially and offers a hard to counter gameplay style. I know you said you don't want to play zoning characters, and in general I would say Pac has some potential to zone, but it doesn't completely dominate his gameplay. Has a somewhat high learning curve though so you'll have to commit for this one.

Out of the 3 you listed: In my opinion, he's the most slept on out of the 3 and probably the easiest to pick up and play. No other real reasoning beyond that.

can also be a good option for obvious reasons. Very similar to Mario plus he kills way easier and can use pills to open up swords easier. Although if he get's sent off stage it's usually going to mean death.

Just my two cents.

 

[Felancius]

can also be a good option for obvious reasons. Very similar to Mario plus he kills way easier and can use pills to open up swords easier. Although if he get's sent off stage it's usually going to mean death.

I'm going to have to disagree here, even if your points are kinda right, but Doc is not only easier to gimp, but he loses to most of the matchups Mario already struggles with, like said swordies such as Ike and Link. I wish Doc was good as a secondary option though since he's super fun to play but... the risk is not worth the reward if you aren't maining him instead.

 

[xwingz900]

I'm going to have to disagree here, even if your points are kinda right, but Doc is not only easier to gimp, but he loses to most of the matchups Mario already struggles with, like said swordies such as Ike and Link. I wish Doc was good as a secondary option though since he's super fun to play but... the risk is not worth the reward if you aren't maining him instead.

To each his own, my line of thinking is coming from the fact he only needs a few decent hit's to get to kill range as opposed to Mario who can sometimes get to opponents to 180 before having to back throw kill them. Figured that would maybe give him the edge over swords, especially with pills causing ridiculous knock back and the fact that Doc can use down b or up b to kill rather early.

 

[SmokeOut]

I feel Doc does even worse against swords than Mario. His better kill power can't be utilized if he can't get in to land any hits. Pills may have more hit stun when they land, but a sword can swat them away just as easy as fireballs.

Also, as a Mario main, Doc just feels terrible. He's so sluggish in comparison, it feels like Mario put training weights on. Then there is his abysmal recovery which makes getting back on stage a chore without being gimped.

I personally don't think Mario's inferior kill power is much of an issue either. His combo game makes damage racking quick and his up smash, f smash, fair and dair can all take stocks at reasonable percents.

 

[xwingz900]

I feel Doc does even worse against swords than Mario. His better kill power can't be utilized if he can't get in to land any hits. Pills may have more hit stun when they land, but a sword can swat them away just as easy as fireballs.

Also, as a Mario main, Doc just feels terrible. He's so sluggish in comparison, it feels like Mario put training weights on. Then there is his abysmal recovery which makes getting back on stage a chore without being gimped.

I personally don't think Mario's inferior kill power is much of an issue either. His combo game makes damage racking quick and his up smash, f smash, fair and dair can all take stocks at reasonable percents.

I'm definately not saying that Mario is worse than Doc, just figured it was a thing to try. Try Pac Man and Yoshi if you don't like Doc

 

[Aquuds]

I’m a Mario main myself, and I have Wolf as my other tournament character, Wolf covers Mario’s bad matchups (especially against swordies) so if you find yourself in a set against a Lucina, Cloud, Ike, or a bad matchups for Mario, Wolf does the job. If anybody wants me to go in depth why, I will.

And like Killgar said, Pit’s a good choice as well.

 

[DunnoBro]

According to Zackray's (Perhaps outdated?) chart, Wolf actually loses to the Marcinas, and Shulk. And only goes even vs Chrom.

I do think Wolf is a very solid choice however. But I actually believe Inkling is the objectively best Mario Secondary. At least according to Cosmos + Wizzy's Matchup Chart.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5m-54mXoAEvmUF.jpg
https://media.eventhubs.com/images/2019/03/28_cosmo01.png

Inkling beating most swordies, and Mario going even with Peach/Oli, and beating Rob works out super well.

There's also a good level of overlap with how bair-centric they are. (Though their mix-ups from bair differ quite a bit) As well as better stage coverage, as Inkling's Mobility and options make them better Picks in situations they're clearly trying to ledge trap you, and take away platforms which help you escape. (FD, SV, etc)

I also like that Inkling's biggest weakness is the lack of OOS options. Which Mario has in spades.

(Though I actually do believe Mario is solo-viable)

Edit:

Actually, after actually looking more into Inkling and the controls required of them; I don't think they're quite the ideal secondary anymore.

To properly ledge trap using Dair (Full hoping to feint a fair, then dairing standard/roll/hang and true comboing into uair) and getting the spike hitbox, you need tilt stick. Smash stick makes you fast fall. And this really hurts inkling's consistency at higher percents.

Wolf is still good, though they have a common enemy in Lucina.

I'm more leaning towards Palutena now. Boasting still better matchups against Lucina, and Snake. As well as performing overall better on Tiny Triplats like BF, Lylat, and Yoshi's melee.

Not as perfect* matchup coverage as Inkling, but is an overall easier character.

But man, Inkling really would be perfect if not for this issue.