Samus Questions

[Nux]

I’m a Samus main in Cleveland looking for some answers. I already know and a have read a great deal of Samus knowledge but I still have many questions I’ll post here. I may make another thread to ask more indepth questions.

Also, before I start, any answers or tips would be greatly appreciated, especially for questions 1, 2, 7, 9, and 10

1. Tether mechanics: is there an indepth thread on its mechanics? I know a few tricks, like rising grapple, but there seems to be two forms of grapple canceling, one where you go into tumble and one where you go into special tumble, and I’m not sure which is which.

2. Edge cancels up b. Are there any tricks with this or does one just have to know it by feel and experience?

3. Is wavedashing with Samus faster than running?

4. Pictures showing the maximum sweetspot range for each stage would also be very helpful.

5. I can do AI, but are there any tricks with it besides a quick invincible attack from ledge? Is using it on a platform useful?

6. For Jab Canceling, what is usually a good follow up? Say I jab pressure my opponents shield and get a hit. Can I downsmash off of it or is it to slow? Maybe F-tilt?

7. I know Up Throw on spacies has a lot of guaranteed follow ups. Is there any other useful setups, like downthrow at high percents to smash attack? Is there a percent up throw combos stop working?

8. Any good grab from zero combos? The most I can think of is upthrow, Dair, techchase on fast fallers.

9. How should Rising Fair be used? As a defensive option to catch people or as more of an approach?

10. Is it possible to perfect Hax Dash with Samus? An earlier thread says it is, but I don’t know how many frames one has to spare doing it or if it’s humanly feasible.

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

3. Yes, perfect wave dashes are faster than running

5. AIs help with general movememt and platform tech chasing

6. As long as you're spaced right, just keep jabbing until your opponent chooses an oos option. And/or shield poke with dtilt, dsmash, or angled ftilt.

8. uthrow->nair->nair and uthrow->weak bair->strong bair can happen at certain di's

10. You can perfect hax dash with samus. Pretty sure its been discussed so if you search samus hax dash you should see it in a samus thread somewhere.

@ Corigames How much of the information this guy is asking for is in the guides? I know a lot of it has been covered in the general discussion. Could we catalog posts and link them in the guide? I'll help find info.

 

[Litt]

I’m a Samus main in Cleveland looking for some answers. I already know and a have read a great deal of Samus knowledge but I still have many questions I’ll post here. I may make another thread to ask more indepth questions.

Also, before I start, any answers or tips would be greatly appreciated, especially for questions 1, 2, 7, 9, and 10

1. Tether mechanics: is there an indepth thread on its mechanics? I know a few tricks, like rising grapple, but there seems to be two forms of grapple canceling, one where you go into tumble and one where you go into special tumble, and I’m not sure which is which.

2. Edge cancels up b. Are there any tricks with this or does one just have to know it by feel and experience?

3. Is wavedashing with Samus faster than running?

4. Pictures showing the maximum sweetspot range for each stage would also be very helpful.

5. I can do AI, but are there any tricks with it besides a quick invincible attack from ledge? Is using it on a platform useful?

6. For Jab Canceling, what is usually a good follow up? Say I jab pressure my opponents shield and get a hit. Can I downsmash off of it or is it to slow? Maybe F-tilt?

7. I know Up Throw on spacies has a lot of guaranteed follow ups. Is there any other useful setups, like downthrow at high percents to smash attack? Is there a percent up throw combos stop working?

8. Any good grab from zero combos? The most I can think of is upthrow, Dair, techchase on fast fallers.

9. How should Rising Fair be used? As a defensive option to catch people or as more of an approach?

10. Is it possible to perfect Hax Dash with Samus? An earlier thread says it is, but I don’t know how many frames one has to spare doing it or if it’s humanly feasible.

I am not going to go indepth in any of you questions, but I will give you just enough to get you started.
1. No in depth thread, I have read every post on here and it is yet to be complied. I think you may be talking about tumble vs Special Fall, I don't believe i am familiar with special tumble if that term is even correct.

2. Feel and experience

3. Of Course

4. Feel and experience, no pictures necessary or I think in existence that are compiled

5. Yes, and there are multiple ways to use on plats, with different means of setting up

6. Dtilt is great for poking, dsmash you will get punished, but samus's pressure isnt to actually deteriorate a shield, its better used to bait out options and understand opponent's capabiltiies.

7. you can cg fox past like 120% for lolz with dthrow, dthrow at mid percent vs fast fallers you can get a dtilt, jab dtilt, or wd forward dtilt, depending on the percent and if they DI

8. Grab throw jab dtilt, grab dthrow, jab regrab up throw, up throw read Di with Dair, fast fall into jab reset.

9. Hit opponents going into full jump aerials, and useful to isai drop with it on plats, rising fair from ledge also hella useful but watchout b/c everyone knows its samus's bread and butter.

10. Yes, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOe5kxOtJGY feasible just tight timing if you need to be quick if you want full invins.

 

[JerkPhil]

1. If you do it too close to the stage, you get into the helpless state. If you do it further away, you can still do aerials.

2. Yeah, feel and experience. I'm not sure about the NTSC version, but at least in PAL, I can roll to the far edge of Battlefield and upB and hold into the stage for a guaranteed edge cancel on the side platform.

5. Things like this. Faster than SHFFMC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tfR7Rmd_pE

7. Uthrow also links into aerials on Falcon. Some characters get hit by charge shot after Dthrow with some DI. Puff at mid-high % is a good example.
Uthrow leads into charge shot on fastfallers at low-mid %.

8. Yeah if they miss the tech after Dthrow, you get a jab reset.

9. Rising Fair against opponents on platforms often shield poke. It also leads to follow ups on fastfallers.

 

[cisyphus]

I believe the tumble actually comes when the tether beam gets intersected (usually by a part of the stage). Every other instance is the special fall.

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

Its not that it gets intersected with the stage, its that it gets intersected with itself. When you're at an appropriate spacing and rising grapple (like @ JerkPhil mentioned) the tether bunches in on itself and disappears. This happens before you go into the helpless state--- thus leaving you with your momentum from the rising grapple but leaving you actionable.

 

[343]

speed (wavedash vs dash) stuff: http://smashboards.com/threads/ultimate-ground-movement-analysis-turbo-edition.392367/

we should actually come up with a compilation of combos off throws on all characters with different DIs

 

[Nux]

Thank you all for the help.

One clarification for the grapple cancel:
1. when the stage crosses the grapple, you go into tumble and can act out of it
2. when the beam tangles in in itself, you go into special fall and cannot act out of it.

Is this correct?

 

[Corigames]

1. Tether mechanics.

If you are too close to the stage, you go into special tumble. If a part of the stage intersects it, then you can act out of it. I go into this quite in depth in the intro thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/intro-to-samus-character-match-ups.185258/#post-5001281

Scroll down to the section on her Zair for my input on it. Also, feel free to check out the rest of it. I don't think most people see it because it's the second post instead of the first, but there's a lot of info I've dumped in there.

2. Edge cancels up b. Are there any tricks with this or does one just have to know it by feel and experience?
You just have to feel it out. There's no real rigid/guaranteed way to do it, you just have to DI correctly after doing the UpB

3. Is wavedashing with Samus faster than running?
Yes

5. I can do AI, but are there any tricks with it besides a quick invincible attack from ledge? Is using it on a platform useful?

a. Yes, anything you need to do to get your stage control back. Doing the AI properly after getting ledge invincibility will allow you to be neutral on stage with active invincibility frames, something you can't normally get with other get-ups as Samus. Though which move you do is entirely dependent on your opponent.

b. Yes, for following up when wavelanding would take too long.

6. For Jab Canceling, what is usually a good follow up? Say I jab pressure my opponents shield and get a hit. Can I downsmash off of it or is it to slow? Maybe F-tilt?

This depends on their DI. They might DI Up, Away, or down and each would have different punishes. Ftilt is pretty good since you can angle it to cover most of those, but people can SDI in and cause you to horribly mis-space it.

7. I know Up Throw on spacies has a lot of guaranteed follow ups. Is there any other useful setups, like downthrow at high percents to smash attack? Is there a percent up throw combos stop working?

You don't need another set-up aside from the one that works the best. The only time I wouldn't Uthrow spacies is when you're near the ledge and think you can guard them to death. If they are at a percent where you can't Uthrow them for a combo, then downthrow is better, though I feel like they should be dead at that point.

8. Any good grab from zero combos? The most I can think of is upthrow, Dair, techchase on fast fallers.

Not that I can think of.

9. How should Rising Fair be used? As a defensive option to catch people or as more of an approach?

Situational. If someone is hiding in shield on a platform, I think it's good for pressuring them. It's good from the ledge some times, it's good while retreating some times, but, like everything else in the game, your use of the move will change depending on stage, character, and opponent. So, trying to say how it 'should' be used is quite a daunting task. Just know that it's a bunch of weak hits with a nice combo starter on the last one.

10. Is it possible to perfect Hax Dash with Samus? An earlier thread says it is, but I don’t know how many frames one has to spare doing it or if it’s humanly feasible.

Yes, it's just hard.