Ok everyone so I played my first decent Kirby in PM, and so far all I can think is wow that MU is broken. I have found it nearly impossible to edge guard kirby in any way because of the 5 jumps Kirby can cancel any meteor I get on him, the forward up B makes it imposable to hit him with missiles when off the stage, because the hitbox guards the front part of kirby. Percents past like 80, lead to an guaranteed upsmash after a down throw regardless of my DI, at lower percents I can jump out of the upsmash. I can still get some wins over this player just because how much more experience I have as a player, but should I go against a Kirby of my own level, I would seriously have no clue how to approach this MU. From my perspective, the Kirby samus MU is 80-20, does anyone disagree or have any advice. (Yes I am talking about competitive high level play, and not just friendlies with your friends). The mechanics given to kirby are broken. If you use your up B, that should be it, you shouldnt be able to retain all your jumps after you use it, and if you are hit out of it, you shouldn't be able to keep using it :/
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Samus Kirby MU
- Thread starter Litt
- Start date
Also what made samus special in melee is that she had arguable the best recovery, and could gimp nearly any character, in PM, samus barely lives past 120 most of the time, and when characters have an auto kill off grabs past 80... she no longer becomes a viable character anymore. In PM, it seems as if almost all the characters can make it back to the stage no problem, so samus is no longer special.
pizzacato
Smash Ace
Yeah I'm in no means a high level player, but I can agree that the matchup was broken from how easily Kirby can approach, and how hard it is for me to approach. It requires more effort than necessary.
Umm, I mean not at all Pizzacato... samus is a grounded character, but can keep kirby at bay with well spaced zairs, kirby has the hard time approaching, we are just the ones having trouble comboing or edge guarding kirby, when he can just juggle us for days, get a grab and insta death....
pizzacato
Smash Ace
This is true, I wasn't able to space my zairs well. It was tournament, and I'm guessing tourney flubs were in place. It's also a problem with Samus in general, (mine anyway), not having long combo strings that can kill if executed well.
Watch melee samus players and how they extend their combos, then combine it with your knowledge of PM and presto
pizzacato
Smash Ace
http://youtu.be/KHWb_FyewCo?t=1m3s
That's about as long as my combos tend to go as far as tech chasing goes.
Not against Kirby, but do I have the right idea as far as extending combos?
Please, just watch the first kill. I lost it to nerve flubs.
That's about as long as my combos tend to go as far as tech chasing goes.
Not against Kirby, but do I have the right idea as far as extending combos?
Please, just watch the first kill. I lost it to nerve flubs.
I'm sorry pizzacato, but you don't have the idea down quite yet. For the falcon match up its best for samus to stay grounded, and that is basically the melee MU with the fire moveset. Really you need to learn how to edgegudard instead of wasting time charging your charge shot all the time, not go to ice moveset, and learn to move more fluidly on the ground. Btw jab pressure is really important in the falcon match up, and if you dont want to learn it, just space with zairs so falcon cant just jump at you with nairs
If you want to ask more questions, just private message me instead of spamming on my kirby MU post please
Missile
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 95
I've played against two or three people using Kirby and I too find it hard to do well against him.
I find myself in the air most of the time to avoid the dash attack that leads to combos on Samus at lower percentages. Grabs are also combos on Samus for free. I mostly try to get him int he air in an uncomfortable position since Samus' bair pretty much outranges any of his attacks. All of his aerials trump nair in terms of priority (at least his nair and bair do)
I find Samus' uair to be extremely good when facing a character with mostly superior aerial priority. uair outprioritizes a ton of attacks. It's not melee uair whatsoever, it feels way better now in project M.
Edgeguard-wise, I find myself dropping off or jumping towards him outside of the stage. Up tilt will trump his forward up-b if timed correctly. Sweetspotted up b can't be edgeguarded as far as my experience with the matchup goes.
I find myself in the air most of the time to avoid the dash attack that leads to combos on Samus at lower percentages. Grabs are also combos on Samus for free. I mostly try to get him int he air in an uncomfortable position since Samus' bair pretty much outranges any of his attacks. All of his aerials trump nair in terms of priority (at least his nair and bair do)
I find Samus' uair to be extremely good when facing a character with mostly superior aerial priority. uair outprioritizes a ton of attacks. It's not melee uair whatsoever, it feels way better now in project M.
Edgeguard-wise, I find myself dropping off or jumping towards him outside of the stage. Up tilt will trump his forward up-b if timed correctly. Sweetspotted up b can't be edgeguarded as far as my experience with the matchup goes.
so far the only thing I found effective is just sniping kirbys with the charge shot, dair is pointless, nair loses priority wise, upair useless, bair only viable choice besides ice fair, but when switching to ice, a smart/good kirby will go back to a grounded game because ice on the ground has very limited killing potential
ES Lite
The Real Slim Shady
If it helps, the video I posted in the video thread is against a kirby. Kirby definitely has the match up because of how small he is. He just crouches and you're like damn.
You still have more range than him, you have projectiles, he can crouch cancel but so can you.
My only advice is just practice missile cancelling perfectly so he gets hit even if he crouches. I think thats half the battle. I think zair can also catch him most times. Keep him at bay with range and as soon as that pink ball gets past 70%, fish him with dat ice usmash
As for edgeguarding, I wouldn't really want to jump at him with anything. I'd just missile cancel two homing missiles, see where it goes from there. Bair should be able to hit him out of his horizontal b up right?
You still have more range than him, you have projectiles, he can crouch cancel but so can you.
My only advice is just practice missile cancelling perfectly so he gets hit even if he crouches. I think thats half the battle. I think zair can also catch him most times. Keep him at bay with range and as soon as that pink ball gets past 70%, fish him with dat ice usmash
As for edgeguarding, I wouldn't really want to jump at him with anything. I'd just missile cancel two homing missiles, see where it goes from there. Bair should be able to hit him out of his horizontal b up right?
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I have perfected my missile cancels... and you cant get 2 homings out from platform spams... idk what you are talking about there... Yes bair should be able to him him out of it, but if kirby is hit out of his up b, he just gets it back :/, so its pretty much impossible to edge guard kirby aside from a front on charge shot, he can just fair away all missiles, and he has 5 other jumps besides the up b which he can sweet spot
ES Lite
The Real Slim Shady
I meant like...jump, missile cancel a homing missile, and do a nooby standing homing missile 
I understand the struggles though, I haven't really played against kirby that much to say what really works against him edge guarding. I would try experimenting with ice fairs, bairs, and nair. Those are just off the top of my head though. I think bair would probably be the safest option but thats kinda hard to time.
I understand the struggles though, I haven't really played against kirby that much to say what really works against him edge guarding. I would try experimenting with ice fairs, bairs, and nair. Those are just off the top of my head though. I think bair would probably be the safest option but thats kinda hard to time.
the problem is kirby's mobility in the air is far superior than samus, you need to just wait for the right opportunity and capitalize as hard as you can, edguarding samus in melee was possible, but tedious. And that option of jumping homing then standing homing is not smart, it waste a lot of time, if anything maybe you can lay two bombs, and fire homings after the mini jumps you get off the explosion for two that way. I know that was possible in melee, but I havent explored that in PM at all.
ES Lite
The Real Slim Shady
So after seeing this thread, and having replied to it, I went back to the kirby match up. Honestly, it's not that hard. Kirby does have the superior air mobility, but beyond that, there's not much light shining on kirby.
Neutral game goes to samus, she has sexy legs that reach across final destination. Her b-up options are super solid against kirby, and nair is probably the best move in this matchup
Edgeguarding, after seeing your post made me kinda scared, but honestly you can kick kirby pretty damn hard. I thought bair would be my only option but the most predictable off stage nairs were working.
Kirby might have a slight advantage when it comes to the higher percents, but uair was really the only thing I had to watch out for. His hammer and other anticipated kill moves were easily avoided and or punished.
Maybe the kirby I was playing wasn't as good as the one you were playing
Neutral game goes to samus, she has sexy legs that reach across final destination. Her b-up options are super solid against kirby, and nair is probably the best move in this matchup
Edgeguarding, after seeing your post made me kinda scared, but honestly you can kick kirby pretty damn hard. I thought bair would be my only option but the most predictable off stage nairs were working.
Kirby might have a slight advantage when it comes to the higher percents, but uair was really the only thing I had to watch out for. His hammer and other anticipated kill moves were easily avoided and or punished.
Maybe the kirby I was playing wasn't as good as the one you were playing
yeah, no offense but the kirby you were playing was absolutely horrible if you were having an easy time in this MU. Since you live in PA, maybe one time you can get a chance to go to Xanadu gaming and play Chu dat's kirby, then get back to me about your opinion of the MU.
Finally starting to get a grasp of the kirby MU, and I have actually used the ice effectively in this along with the metaknight match up. I have started off the matches spacing with zairs to get kirby more aggressive and force him to approach, when kirby tries to keep grounded I stay with the classic melee metagame spacing with forward tilts and jabs, but when kirby gets airborn, I switch to running forward towards kirby then rolling back in morph ball at a weird unique samus dash dance, where if kirby approaches with an aerial I punish with an ice fair, on the ground with a dash attack I clank with boost ball, and from above, I use the upsmash as an anti air. Off the stage, ice fair is the only effective move to safely edgeguard kirby, and you want to hold a charge shot to cover the option of kirby side up bing towards you, while actively going out to beat any option kirby can try to use to combat the ice fair because its relatively easy to land on an off stage kirby. Basically this match up is even, if you just do not approach, but if you actively try to go after kirby it easily becomes at 70-30 MU.