Samus Counterpick on Pika?

[Glasgowsmile]

In the previous Apex and on several different Matches in smaller Tournaments and online friendlies we see a lot of people counterpicking samus against pikachu, which by match-up chart should be a terrible decision but it has worked for a fair portion of the matches which confuses me greatly.
Hence i want to know your opinions on this match up on dreamland? is it really as bad as the matchupchart suggests? Is it a gimmicky strat with no background or has samus hidden potential in that regard?

 

[Sedda]

which tournaments/specific matches are you talking about?

 

[Glasgowsmile]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkiqAQbv-xY a fairly recent one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyACCwHndr0 Apex 2012 and kefit surely has a great pikachu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=149kYooe58I

just to mention a few.

 

[breakthrough]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkiqAQbv-xY a fairly recent one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyACCwHndr0 Apex 2012 and kefit surely has a great pikachu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=149kYooe58I

just to mention a few.

IIRC, JaimeHR is a Samus main (although he can play pretty much every character)

Cobrevolution was a Samus main and almost exclusively used Samus in tournament.

I can't speak for Alpha because I don't know that scene very much.

 

[Glasgowsmile]

okay but that doesn´t answer my question. i would like to now your opinions on the match up in general. is it the 70 : 30 the chart suggests or is it more of a 60 : 40 or even 57 : 43 in your eyes? Personally i´d go with the later.

 

[breakthrough]

okay but that doesn´t answer my question. i would like to now your opinions on the match up in general. is it the 70 : 30 the chart suggests or is it more of a 60 : 40 or even 57 : 43 in your eyes? Personally i´d go with the later.

So Cobrevolution texted me and told me to post on his behalf since he's still banned.

"Pika Samus is 70:30 at a minimum. Good pika players know how to get around Samus with uairs and utilts, edge guarding is no problem with upb stalls and reverse uairs, and can easily combo to death with uair. Not to mention Samus' only viable option is to dair trap on the plats...and she can't chase a pika who recovers high."

 

[felipe_9595]

*30:70 , Samus Pika 70:30 means Samus wins the matchup

EDIT: Also, Alpha picked Ness and Samus for the ****ing lulz, he mains Kirby hahahaha

 

[breakthrough]

*30:70 , Samus Pika 70:30 means Samus wins the matchup

EDIT: Also, Alpha picked Ness and Samus for the ****ing lulz, he mains Kirby hahahaha

Fixed it. Was just rewriting what I was texted verbatim.

 

[Sedda]

okay but that doesn´t answer my question. i would like to now your opinions on the match up in general. is it the 70 : 30 the chart suggests or is it more of a 60 : 40 or even 57 : 43 in your eyes? Personally i´d go with the later.

Yeah pika utilt and uair destroys samus. samus is JUST the right floatiness to get completey destroyed by pika uair combos.

cobr is a samus main. alpha is (or at least was at the time) MUCH better than shalaka, so that was him ****ing around.

JaimeHR is a really good samus user, and afaik kefit isn't very good at the lower tier matchups. Jaime knew this.

 

[Glasgowsmile]

okay thank you for your views^^

 

[William5000000]

From looking at those videos, it seems that Pikachu's Forward Smash for edge-guarding (the most broken move) against Samus isn't all that effective. Therefore, I think Pikachu's Down Aerial for edge-guarding against Samus is the best option. If that doesn't work, one should Slide DI up to get out of Samus' Screw Attack, in the hopes of grabbing the ledge before Samus does. Or better yet, use Up Aerial after Slide DI'ing out of Samus' Screw Attack, and try to follow it up by either using Neutral Aerial or Back Aerial, then recover to make it back to the stage. If one can master that, then that good Pikachu player can KO a good Samus player with edge-guarding.

Pikachu's Neutral Aerial for edge-guarding against Samus can work to a certain degree, but not all the time.

Oh, and one should try using Pikachu's Neutral Special, Thunder Jolt, for edge-guarding to make it harder for the other player's character to make it back to the stage.

 

[MrMarbles]

cobr is just a salty samus main and exagerates every matchup against samus. IMO samus vs pika isnt THAT bad of a MO for samus. maybe 60-40. The reason it can be a good cp is because most pika mains know all the top tier matchups really well but not too many know the pika samus match up very well since there's only like 3-4 samus mains in the US

 

[The Star King]

"<cobrrrrrrr> can you explain to marbles that calling pika samus 60:40 is completely tearing the adv/disadv system asunder"

I'm posting this because I actually agree with rob, 60:40 is WAY too generous for Samus. Uair alone shuts down Samus horribly. This isn't even salty samus main stuff cuz 60:40 is ridiculous, if anything that's something only a pika main would say.

You explained why it might feel otherwise yourself, you probably don't know the matchup as well as a Samus player does.

 

[Morin0]

So Cobrevolution texted me and told me to post on his behalf since he's still banned.

 

[MrMarbles]

"<cobrrrrrrr> can you explain to marbles that calling pika samus 60:40 is completely tearing the adv/disadv system asunder"

I'm posting this because I actually agree with rob, 60:40 is WAY too generous for Samus. Uair alone shuts down Samus horribly. This isn't even salty samus main stuff cuz 60:40 is ridiculous, if anything that's something only a pika main would say.

You explained why it might feel otherwise yourself, you probably don't know the matchup as well as a Samus player does.

i disagree. and recent match history shows that samus can hold her own against pika

 

[Sedda]

interesting stuff guys.

it's important to bear in mind that luigi sucks


edit: @ MrMarbles

<cobrrrrrrr> ask what recent match history shows samus holding her own against pika where there isn't a skill gap

 

[MrMarbles]

you vs greginator, Wario vs jousuke

 

[Combo Blaze]

wtf **** you smashboards have to retype this
j samus = mid tier with get out of jail free up b
also pretty sure jousuke lost to wario

 

[nickthename]

1. J Samus is better than U Samus
2. Jouske is an extremely good player
3. He lost to WARIO anyway

Not really sure how that's an argument for Samus being good in that matchup.

 

[Cedricwa]

The pika Samus matchup is definitely in pikas favor probably 70:30
But the reason I think people can ccounterpick samus and win is because the pikachu mains in that situation are probably not used to that matchup at all