Salt between friends

[Kyzael]

Well to explain this simply. I play Smash Bros 4 Wii U. I got it for the Wii U and all that nice stuff.

But I don't actually play it. As in I don't practice.
Now the problem is that my friend, who is a Captain Falcon player (If this means anything to anyone, just putting it out), practices daily to get better and let everything.

My "training" is when we are fighting and honing those skills we learned. Problem is that I actually end up beating him. Not all the time but when I do win, it's usually in 3 wins in a row. Last time we fought, I complained I had a lot of problems hitting the Bair and Fair for Lucario. (And Ganondorf) 2 days later after not even touching the controller, I'm hitting him constantly with Fair and getting finishers with Bair.

We've even gone to a public tournament in my area, where they matched us up right at the beginning; which I won the fight.


I suppose i'm side-tracking this a bit.
What do I do when my friend gets upset? I notice that when he's irritated that he makes more mistakes. He's even bitten his hand (Not like severely harmful biting) to keep himself from getting upset.

Something that came up between us was the scene between Rock Lee vs Sasuke the first time.
"Hard work will always triumph over Natural Talent." He disagrees.

And please give me some serious responses? I know the whole bit of "Git Gud" and all those nice things. I like playing games and I like playing Smash Bros but I don't want my friend quitting the game because of me.

 

[Garrett Robinson]

Explain to me how long you and your friend have been playing, and I will continue.

 

[Kyzael]

Explain to me how long you and your friend have been playing, and I will continue.

We've been playing together on Smash 4 since it came out for the 3DS.
We had played Brawl, Project M, and Melee in the past but I never got too much into it until now.

 

[Garrett Robinson]

Thanks. Well first off you've had it around 6 months, so obviously you're not going to be too great, I don't know to much about you or your friends skill but I'll just make assumptions (correct me if i'm wrong). Your friend isn't as good as you and you can beat him consistently which then brings out the salt and then he will lose motivation. This happen happens to me and my friends all the time, the way I've dealt with it (as the better player) is to just let them calm down and be encouraging. Your friend just might not have a good understanding of the game, you should tell him to play multiple characters to help him get a good understanding of each one, you should also play different characters with him (so you don't beat him badly). Do this and it might be your solution, in the end if your friend sucks still he might just suck and require extreme amount of practice. Hope this helps.

 

[Kyzael]

Well I'm no Nairo or M2K. So yeah, I suck. ^^"
And neither is my friend, but I would say we are beginning in competitive tier of skill. Other than our practice sessions, I look up information of advice, tips, and techniques with my characters. (In my case, Lucario and Ganondorf)

He does lose motivation and then he will say he sucks. I tell him that he doesn't that he's just us trading between wins.

But thank you for your input. ^^

 

[Octavium]

Well I'm no Nairo or M2K. So yeah, I suck. ^^"
And neither is my friend, but I would say we are beginning in competitive tier of skill. Other than our practice sessions, I look up information of advice, tips, and techniques with my characters. (In my case, Lucario and Ganondorf)

He does lose motivation and then he will say he sucks. I tell him that he doesn't that he's just us trading between wins.

But thank you for your input. ^^

The thing is, captain falcon is a very simple character while being really deep into combo games, this works against him, as it gives him trouble when approaching since he becomes predictable for having really simple approach options.

He honestly has to space correctly while zoning and hopes the opponent makes a mistake to use his amazing dash speed for a grab or dash attack or U-smash punish. (Grab is usually the most tempting though).

And since you play slower but more damaging characters, that means your playstyle must be patient and precise, that also means that you oftenly win damage trades. Couple that with how obvious falcon is when fighting, and you get (almost) easy wins.

On A side note: Simply playing isn't going to make you better if you're not looking for specific things to improve.(Some people play like 2k hours and don't end up being so good)

(I'm not saying falcon is worse than Lucario and Ganon, I honestly think hes better but he needs to learn proper zone-breaking for his matchups and to try to be unpredictable.)

TL;DR: Your playstyle most likely counters his, and he needs to learn your zoning patterns to beat you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqPn3f7Wjk8

 

[Teran]

Hard work and natural talent are a balance. Talent can only go so far without development, and and hard work can only take you so far if you lack talent.

 

[Octavium]

Hard work and natural talent are a balance. Talent can only go so far without development, and and hard work can only take you so far if you lack talent.

I think the healthy human brain is physically wired too similarly between humans, I don't think some humans have a clear advantage over others (Unless if its a physical challenge rather than a mental one).

I think natural talent is more of an affinity/love/passion for something, people think hard work doesn't pay off but they misunderstand what hard work actually is. Actual Hard work should be at least considered 6000 to 10000 hours of effort to improving in something.

That amount is often only reached by people who love and are passionate about something (which represents ''natural talent'').

10k hours of competitive smash is something Mew2king recently reached, and I believe Mang0 is soon to reach it (and some people say they were gifted).

When it comes to a challenge of skill, the only gift is your passion to improve and your willing-ness to work your complete ass off for it.

 

[Teran]

I think the healthy human brain is physically wired too similarly between humans, I don't think some humans have a clear advantage over others (Unless if its a physical challenge rather than a mental one).

I think natural talent is more of an affinity/love/passion for something, people think hard work doesn't pay off but they misunderstand what hard work actually is. Actual Hard work should be at least considered 6000 to 10000 hours of effort to improving in something.

That amount is often only reached by people who love and are passionate about something (which represents ''natural talent'').

10k hours of competitive smash is something Mew2king recently reached, and I believe Mang0 is soon to reach it (and some people say they were gifted).

When it comes to a challenge of skill, the only gift is your passion to improve and your willing-ness to work your complete *** off for it.

The most minor of genetic variation can produce vastly different outcomes. Natural aptitude and ability are definitely a thing,

Plus if we were all wired so similarly, the huge differences in art and culture that we see within society wouldn't exist. Talents and aptitude can have lots of overlap which people font necessarily notice, but ultimately there are general trait sets people carry which lend them towards certain things.

It's like saying a 5tt tall guy with a passion for basketball can make it in the NBA. Just because mental aptitude and personality aren't obviously tangible, doesn't mean they don't still have the same effect.

Also we tend to enjoy things we're good at anyway.

 

[Octavium]

I simply don't believe in natural ability, I believe its an excuse for the lazy and the concept itself can discourage people who dream of becoming great at something.

Yes some people may pick up on certain things much more easily, but that could be linked to a past development in somewhat similar practices and/or development of mental capacity in the area that the newly practiced activity utilises.

The huge differences in art and culture can be linked to the different methods of communications.

I won't debate with you about whether or not natural ability is a thing, there's so many factors involved that both it existing and not existing are nearly infallible statements.

The only thing I hope we can agree on is that ''natural ability'' isn't the ultimate deciding factor that some people make it out to be.

It's like saying a 5tt tall guy with a passion for basketball can make it in the NBA. Just because mental aptitude and personality aren't obviously tangible, doesn't mean they don't still have the same effect.

I specifically stated that physical advantages were a thing.

 

[deepseadiva]

Yes some people may pick up on certain things much more easily, but that could be linked to a past development in somewhat similar practices and/or development of mental capacity in the area that the newly practiced activity utilises.

Nature is what ends up validating whomever the winner is. By virtue of them winning of course.

Natural talent vs hardwork. Imagine if someone combined the two.

 

[Teran]

I simply don't believe in natural ability, I believe its an excuse for the lazy and the concept itself can discourage people who dream of becoming great at something.

Yes some people may pick up on certain things much more easily, but that could be linked to a past development in somewhat similar practices and/or development of mental capacity in the area that the newly practiced activity utilises.

The huge differences in art and culture can be linked to the different methods of communications.

I won't debate with you about whether or not natural ability is a thing, there's so many factors involved that both it existing and not existing are nearly infallible statements.

The only thing I hope we can agree on is that ''natural ability'' isn't the ultimate deciding factor that some people make it out to be.[I specifically stated that physical advantages were a thing.

Your brain structure and hormonal balance (the latter is very significant in how you develop as an individual) are physical traits, just as much as things like height

 

[gmBottles]

Thanks. Well first off you've had it around 6 months, so obviously you're not going to be too great, I don't know to much about you or your friends skill but I'll just make assumptions (correct me if i'm wrong). Your friend isn't as good as you and you can beat him consistently which then brings out the salt and then he will lose motivation. This happen happens to me and my friends all the time, the way I've dealt with it (as the better player) is to just let them calm down and be encouraging. Your friend just might not have a good understanding of the game, you should tell him to play multiple characters to help him get a good understanding of each one, you should also play different characters with him (so you don't beat him badly). Do this and it might be your solution, in the end if your friend sucks still he might just suck and require extreme amount of practice. Hope this helps.

This is probably the best thing you can do.
Also Garrett I see you're actually pretty close to me, do you enter tournaments down here?

 

[Octavium]

Your brain structure and hormonal balance (the latter is very significant in how you develop as an individual) are physical traits, just as much as things like height

You're completely right, but when I was talking about physical traits, I was making an exception to the brain structure (Since the brain structure can easily change with personal experiences because of neuroplasticity).

While your height, bone structure, nutrition absorption, fat disposition and natural muscle is mostly decided by genetics.

 

[Kyzael]

I appreciate all the input. Also thank you for the spacing video, Octavium.

Since then, things have improved on both of our parts.

^^" I wish I could have some more input right now but i'm doing finals with school so time is short for me.

 

[Still~Wolf]

Glad stuff is better. Me and my bro do this a lot over ANY MATCH. I get irritated, and then that causes more irritation between us

Really, as I've told other people, you may win a lot simply due to knowing the match-up well. You and your friend's match up. People that play together tend to know how each other play.

 

[Monado Master]

Thanks. Well first off you've had it around 6 months, so obviously you're not going to be too great, I don't know to much about you or your friends skill but I'll just make assumptions (correct me if i'm wrong). Your friend isn't as good as you and you can beat him consistently which then brings out the salt and then he will lose motivation. This happen happens to me and my friends all the time, the way I've dealt with it (as the better player) is to just let them calm down and be encouraging. Your friend just might not have a good understanding of the game, you should tell him to play multiple characters to help him get a good understanding of each one, you should also play different characters with him (so you don't beat him badly). Do this and it might be your solution, in the end if your friend sucks still he might just suck and require extreme amount of practice. Hope this helps.

Same thing with me. I play Smash4 with a good friend of mine and most of the time i win the battles. When we first started playing Smash4 we both won battles it was usually a back and forth thing in till i started playing more competitively and really started trying to get better, then i started winning more matches and he'd get kinda mad about it, and when he gets mad he usually wins. Not because i let him win, because he just gets better when mad. I guess he has some kind of anger adrenalin i guess? Well pretty much when you win tell him stuff like you'll beat me next time, or tell him a trick or something like that.

 

[Kyzael]

Same thing with me. I play Smash4 with a good friend of mine and most of the time i win the battles. When we first started playing Smash4 we both won battles it was usually a back and forth thing in till i started playing more competitively and really started trying to get better, then i started winning more matches and he'd get kinda mad about it, and when he gets mad he usually wins. Not because i let him win, because he just gets better when mad. I guess he has some kind of anger adrenalin i guess? Well pretty much when you win tell him stuff like you'll beat me next time, or tell him a trick or something like that.

With my friend, it's the exact opposite. He messes up when he's upset and I even 2-stock him a lot of the time when he's upset.
With me personally, I had little experience with Smash so I was at a disadvantage. When Smash 4 wiiU came out, we literally spent hours upon hours playing and fighting each other. I'd sometimes barely win or just out-right lose.

Sometimes though, things just click and work for me. Like for me, I have the most problems with the Fair and Bair on Lucario. The next day, I just started hitting them easily like it was natural and it really got my friend upset. (He joked and called me an Anime character, random power-up)

Sometimes I'll notice things that will upset him and I tone it down so that I don't end up just ruining the fun of the game entirely. By either making it a very close match, while making it appear i'm still trying my hardest or just let myself get rekt.

 

[Garrett Robinson]

This is probably the best thing you can do.
Also Garrett I see you're actually pretty close to me, do you enter tournaments down here?

I apologize for the late response but yes I do attend tourneys, mostly the Mobile and Pensacola monthlies.