Sakurai addresses Ice Climbers’ absence

[Super_Queijo]

http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...bros-wii-u3ds-and-more-in-new-famitsu-column/

I don't know if it's right to judge, but with the little information we have, I don't think he made a good decision by cutting them in both games because of hardware limitation

 

[domriver]

All right I am NO video game engineer or anything but this reason of hardware limitation. I don't get it. You have characters Rosalina and Luma and Duck Hunt Dog which work together. How is Ice Climbers any different? If anyone can explain please would be appreciated.

 

[MagnesD3]

Sakurai is trash if he doesnt allow IC's to be exclusive to wii U

 

[Hoser]

All right I am NO video game engineer or anything but this reason of hardware limitation. I don't get it. You have characters Rosalina and Luma and Duck Hunt Dog which work together. How is Ice Climbers any different. If anyone can explain please would be appreciated.

Luma and (maybe)Duck are most likely both articles (basically on the same processing level as Mario's fireball), whereas Nana was an entire character file. They could have turned Nana into an article most likely, but she would not be the same at all. And rather than slap the Ice Climbers with a terrible nerf, it seems as though he decided to cut them all together.

 

[PikaSamus]

A thread about this was locked for some reason, so it might not have been a wise decision to re-create it.

 

[.:~*Momo*~:.]

Wouldn't it have been better to just change their gameplay style than to cut them all together? I'm not an Ice Climber main or fan and their designs always seemed plain and uninspired to me but it seems kind of... not right to cut them all together just because they wouldn't work on the portable hardware, why not just include them as Wii U exclusives? It's better for their fans to have them in one version of the game than neither, at least I'd think so.

 

[Flaxr XIII]

There wasn’t as high a priority given to series that are unlikely to have another installment at this time.

So basically, not only does the Ice Climbers series get shafted by 3DS Smash but by ALL of Nintendo? Looks like the Ice Climbers Reboot STILL isn't going to happen any time soon. This is a sad day for Ice Climbers fans. And they say Metriod and DK got screwed?

 

[TeaTwoTime]

I can understand his decision to keep the rosters in both games the same, because having only one and feeling like you're missing out can suck.
That said... I do think the better decision would have been to include them in the Wii U version regardless, especially if they had been completed. 3DS users who would begrudge the Wii U version additional characters that could not run on the 3DS would be considered selfish in my book.

 

[MagnesD3]

So basically, not only does the Ice Climbers series get shafted by just Smash but by ALL of Nintendo? Looks like the Ice Climbers Reboot STILL isn't going to happen any time soon. This is a sad day for Ice Climbers fans. And they say Metriod and DK got screwed?

Its a bunch of crap, sakurai has screwed tons of fans with this game.

 

[domriver]

Luma and (maybe)Duck are most likely both articles (basically on the same processing level as Mario's fireball), whereas Nana was an entire character file. They could have turned Nana into an article most likely, but she would not be the same at all. And rather than slap the Ice Climbers with a terrible nerf, it seems as though he decided to cut them all together.

Hmmm. If what you said is true. They could have just adjusted Ice Climbers' power? and kept Nana as an Article or possibly making her an ALT. hmmm

 

[Hoser]

Hmmm. If what you said is true. They could have just adjusted Ice Climbers' power? and kept Nana as an Article or possibly making her an ALT. hmmm

It's not so much about power. Had he adjusted her into an article, she would be severely limited. Just look at how Rosalina and Luma work, and picture the Ice Climbers playing like that. I'm sure he probably tried it, and was not satisfied with it.

He could have gone with Solo Ice Climber, and honestly I think that would have been a better choice. But their whole gimmick was being two characters.

 

[BindingBlade]

It's not so much about power. Had he adjusted her into an article, she would be severely limited. Just look at how Rosalina and Luma work, and picture the Ice Climbers playing like that. I'm sure he probably tried it, and was not satisfied with it.

He could have gone with Solo Ice Climber, and honestly I think that would have been a better choice. But their whole gimmick was being two characters.

I agree. Mach Rider would've been chosen as the "unique retro newcomer" if the Icies weren't two, me thinks.

 

[MagnesD3]

It's not so much about power. Had he adjusted her into an article, she would be severely limited. Just look at how Rosalina and Luma work, and picture the Ice Climbers playing like that. I'm sure he probably tried it, and was not satisfied with it.

He could have gone with Solo Ice Climber, and honestly I think that would have been a better choice. But their whole gimmick was being two characters.

He should have soloed Climbers on the 3ds and let them be normal on the wii u.

 

[Flaxr XIII]

Its a bunch of crap, sakurai has screwed tons of fans with this game.

This is what makes me upset. I wasn't upset with Metroid, DK, and Star Fox getting the short end of the stick. But THIS, THIS is where I draw the line! Ice Climbers had nothing. NOTHING! Smash was all they had! And you took it away just cuz 3DS couldn't handle it?
I'm sorry guys if I'm the reason this thread gets locked but seriously! Rest in Peace, Ice Climbers. I'll miss you.

 

[ErenJager]

When I was 12 I lost both my parents in an ice climbing accident.

It's happening all over again.

 

[BestTeaMaker]

You are not screwing over fans just because one character is cut.

If there is a literal technical reason that they cannot put a character into the game, then that's just how the ball rolls.

There are certain things Sakurai wanted for the 3DS, specifically the ability for the 3DS to render the game at 60 fps smoothly even with 3D and wifi. That is a LOT to ask for in a portable system, but it was important for a fighting game like Smash Bros to work on a portable console. I would imagine when programming Ice Climbers, they realized that it would put a huge strain on the 3DS. Imagine 4 Ice Climbers on the same stage together. That is a lot of computation power that a portable system just cannot handle.

This is also why Rosalina's mechanics work the way they do. Yes, Luma has its own rudimentary AI and moveset, but she attacks according to the player's commands instantly. There is no desynch in commands in the way that Nana operates.

So several options were probably presented to the team. 1) Not create a 3DS version and severely limit their sales, 2) add a gimped version of Ice Climbers that betrays their original intention, or 3) not ruin what made Ice Climbers unique and just not add them to the game.

Look, guys. This is a game that has a lot of amazing characters and mechanics. It probably is one of the more balanced rosters I have seen in the series. To say that Sakurai was being lazy is an absolute dishonor to the hard work that was put into this game.

And if the cut of Ice Climbers or Ness or Snake or "insert cut character here" bothers you that much, then don't play this game and let the rest of us enjoy this in peace.

 

[Ridleyisforever]

I originally didn't want Ice Climbers back this makes me legit sad. Ice Climber's are a classic Smash Bros veteran...

 

[Ganreizu]

All right I am NO video game engineer or anything but this reason of hardware limitation. I don't get it. You have characters Rosalina and Luma and Duck Hunt Dog which work together. How is Ice Climbers any different? If anyone can explain please would be appreciated.

Duck hunt dog is NOTHING alike to rosaluma or ice climbers. They are not two bodies where one is controlled as an extension of another. Duck and dog are one body, one character file, and are animated and function as such.

Rosaluma is the only character that fits to your argument, but the way that the two characters are coded is fundamentally different. As someone above said, desynchs are the biggest reason why it's technically demanding.

 

[domriver]

It's not so much about power. Had he adjusted her into an article, she would be severely limited. Just look at how Rosalina and Luma work, and picture the Ice Climbers playing like that. I'm sure he probably tried it, and was not satisfied with it.

He could have gone with Solo Ice Climber, and honestly I think that would have been a better choice. But their whole gimmick was being two characters.

Sounds reasonable. I think a solo Ice Climber could have worked as well. It would probably be unpopular but given time acceptance would have happened.

 

[MagnesD3]

You are not screwing over fans just because one character is cut.

If there is a literal technical reason that they cannot put a character into the game, then that's just how the ball rolls.

There are certain things Sakurai wanted for the 3DS, specifically the ability for the 3DS to render the game at 60 fps smoothly even with 3D and wifi. That is a LOT to ask for in a portable system, but it was important for a fighting game like Smash Bros to work on a portable console. I would imagine when programming Ice Climbers, they realized that it would put a huge strain on the 3DS. Imagine 4 Ice Climbers on the same stage together. That is a lot of computation power that a portable system just cannot handle.

This is also why Rosalina's mechanics work the way they do. Yes, Luma has its own rudimentary AI and moveset, but she attacks according to the player's commands instantly. There is no desynch in commands in the way that Nana operates.

So several options were probably presented to the team. 1) Not create a 3DS version and severely limit their sales, 2) add a gimped version of Ice Climbers that betrays their original intention, or 3) not ruin what made Ice Climbers unique and just not add them to the game.

Look, guys. This is a game that has a lot of amazing characters and mechanics. It probably is one of the more balanced rosters I have seen in the series. To say that Sakurai was being lazy is an absolute dishonor to the hard work that was put into this game.

And if the cut of Ice Climbers or Ness or Snake or "insert cut character here" bothers you that much, then don't play this game and let the rest of us enjoy this in peace.

Dk fans, zelda fans, starfox fans, metroid fans, ic fans, lucas fans, mewtwo fans, and snake fans have all been screwed its not just 1 series its a whole bunch.

 

[aliensalmon]

That's sad to hear....

 

[Hoser]

I would also like to point out, I think this is the reason transformation characters are no longer a thing. A transformation character not only used a separate character file, but also an entirely separate location in the file directory. So in a sense, hardware limitations are also what cut Pokemon Trainer.

 

[Mo433]

Well, to be honest Samurai DID apologize about a year in advance about cutting characters, and tried his best to add as many as he could with his given limitations.

 

[Skyline1992]

I'm not an Ice Climber main or fan but it does dissappoint me that they didn't come back. I never expected Sakurai to cut any retro characters since the whole reason he adds them in the first place was to make them relevant again.

 

[MagnesD3]

This game is so flaccid.

 

[Flaxr XIII]

Well, to be honest Samurai DID apologize about a year in advance about cutting characters, and tried his best to add as many as he could with his given limitations.

What about Lucas and Wolf then? What makes them more demanding than the others?

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

Its a bunch of crap, sakurai has screwed tons of fans with this game.

Are you ever in a good mood?

I do think that in this case it would have been better for it to be a Wii U only, but whatever.

 

[MagnesD3]

What about Lucas and Wolf then? What makes them more demanding than the others?

Sakurais will, its all that counts.

Are you ever in a good mood?

I do think that in this case it would have been better for it to be a Wii U only, but whatever.

No, sakurai has ruined that all together by destroying one of my favorite games ever. He could fix it but wont, he's probably clueless to how much he has ****ed things up.

 

[BestTeaMaker]

Dk fans, zelda fans, starfox fans, metroid fans, ic fans, lucas fans, mewtwo fans, and snake fans have all been screwed its not just 1 series its a whole bunch.

Being cut from a current game does not invalidate a character's existence in the series. Mewtwo not being in Smash 4 doesn't change the fact that he was in Melee. Lucas not being in Smash 4 doesn't change the fact that he was in Brawl. The same with Wolf, Snake, Roy (from Fire Emblem), Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Young Link.

And there is now a precedent of a cut character even having the chance of returning, thanks to Dr. Mario, whose presence went unknown in Brawl but has now returned in 4. When Nintendo eventually makes Wii Everybody and decides to make Smash 5 (or 6 or 7 or whatever comes next), then those characters who were cut have the chance to return.

If a character you've always wanted has never been in the series, well, there's nothing you can really do about it. But I'm sure that as much as I wanted Isaac from Golden Sun to make it in, there were several others who wanted Mega Man or Pac-Man or Palutena in the roster. If you really wanted to play a game where all of your favorite characters are in it, then seriously go mod the game or create one yourself. That is the spirit of Project M, recreating Brawl to suit the desire of the creators themselves.

I am not saying that it is a bad thing to feel sad if your favorite character is cut or is not included. But that does NOT mean Sakurai OR Nintendo are spiting their fans.

I'm taking the time to write this because I don't want the Smash 4 scene end up like the Brawl scene. I don't want to see what happened when Brawl came out, and suddenly the community was split into two and almost died out. Smash 4 is a new frontier for the series, both in terms of official support and technical abilities.

I'm just glad to see a game where Mario, Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Sonic can play with each other in a single game. What a miracle Smash Bros. is to the gaming world.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Sakurai is trash if he doesnt allow IC's to be exclusive to wii U

Sakurai hating isnt really a way to express your anger

 

[Gene]

What I don't get is why didn't Sakurai just make them a separate Ice Climber? He can just buff Popo and have Nana as an alt costume with her own colors. The Condor could be their new recovery.

 

[MagnesD3]

Being cut from a current game does not invalidate a character's existence in the series. Mewtwo not being in Smash 4 doesn't change the fact that he was in Melee. Lucas not being in Smash 4 doesn't change the fact that he was in Brawl. The same with Wolf, Snake, Roy (from Fire Emblem), Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Young Link.

And there is now a precedent of a cut character even having the chance of returning, thanks to Dr. Mario, whose presence went unknown in Brawl but has now returned in 4. When Nintendo eventually makes Wii Everybody and decides to make Smash 5 (or 6 or 7 or whatever comes next), then those characters who were cut have the chance to return.

If a character you've always wanted has never been in the series, well, there's nothing you can really do about it. But I'm sure that as much as I wanted Isaac from Golden Sun to make it in, there were several others who wanted Mega Man or Pac-Man or Palutena in the roster. If you really wanted to play a game where all of your favorite characters are in it, then seriously go mod the game or create one yourself. That is the spirit of Project M, recreating Brawl to suit the desire of the creators themselves.

I am not saying that it is a bad thing to feel sad if your favorite character is cut or is not included. But that does NOT mean Sakurai OR Nintendo are spiting their fans.

I'm taking the time to write this because I don't want the Smash 4 scene end up like the Brawl scene. I don't want to see what happened when Brawl came out, and suddenly the community was split into two and almost died out. Smash 4 is a new frontier for the series, both in terms of official support and technical abilities.

I'm just glad to see a game where Mario, Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Sonic can play with each other in a single game. What a miracle Smash Bros. is to the gaming world.

People want their All Stars not just marketing tools for characters.

Sakurai hating isnt really a way to express your anger

Its his fault and choices so I dont see why not.

 

[Roy-Kun]

Dk fans, zelda fans, starfox fans, metroid fans, ic fans, lucas fans, mewtwo fans, and snake fans have all been screwed its not just 1 series its a whole bunch.

And the new characters surely are of absolute zero interest to the people. Little Mac, Robin, Palutena, Rosalina and Luma, heck even the Duck Hunt Dog.

Speak for yourself, don't drag others into your own bitter mentality.

 

[Flaxr XIII]

What I don't get is why didn't Sakurai just make them a separate Ice Climber? He can just buff Popo and have Nana as an alt costume with her own colors. The Condor could be their new recovery.

Apparently it's too much work for the little priority Ice Climbers had.

 

[Hoser]

What about Lucas and Wolf then? What makes them more demanding than the others?

My guess is that there wasn't anything more demanding about them. But Sakurai knew there wan't enough time to bring back every vet, and chose to cut those who he thought people would miss the least.