Roy: Stronger than Ike?

[TealOpal]

Until Roy was introduced, Ike was the uncontested heavy hitter of the Fire Emblem series in Sm4sh. However, with Roy's introductions and buffs from Melee, I feel like we may have a new contender for that spot. Here are a few reasons as to why I feel this way:

• Roy's side-smash is possibly the best in the game, as it's both fast and is strangely powerful enough to kill at ludicrously low percentages. Ike's side-smash, while strong, is far to slow to be nearly as staggering as Roy's. It's a good kill move, but Roy's can be thrown out less sparingly due to its speed. It also has an easy-to-land sweet spot.

• Roy's Up-Smash is a multi-hitting move, allowing it to rack up extra damage before sending the foe flying. Even if it doesn't kill, it'll hurt. Ike's up-smash, while powerful in its own right, is both slower and doesn't hold combo potential as well as Roy's. Ike's up-smash, however, has wider range.

• Roy's down-smash is both quick enough and strong enough to be used as an effective tool for quickly distancing yourself from opponents who are pressuring you. Ike's can do the same, but not at nearly as safe a speed.

• Roy's up-special is, while less handy for recovering than Ike's, a terrifyingly effective tool for both damaging quickly and chaining combos. Ike's has enough startup for wise opponents to roll away from it.

Based on these few points alone, I find it believable that Roy may be a more effective heavy hitter than his series' resident heavy hitter. While Ike will always hit harder, Roy's more widespread practicality and diversity make him (In my opinion, at least) a more widespread terror in a lot of ways. It's amazing what a bit of speed added to powerful attacks can do for a character.

So, tell me, what do you think of this idea?

 

[Seraphim.]

Roy isn't really designed to be a heavy hitter, only his Fsmash is ridiculous in terms of KO power. The main difference between the two is that Ike hits are strong anywhere while Roy needs to be up close that makes Ike the more effective heavy hitter.

 

[TealOpal]

Roy isn't really designed to be a heavy hitter, only his Fsmash is ridiculous in terms of KO power. The main difference between the two is that Ike hits are strong anywhere while Roy needs to be up close that makes Ike the more effective heavy hitter.

I feel like Roy's more practical usage in more situations, coupled with the insane damage-to-speed ratio on his attacks still makes him more effective than Ike.

Still, though, you're right on the Fsmash thing. I changed the title based on this.

 

[ShadowKing]

He's not stronger then ike but has a more powerful combo game then ike

 

[SpottedCerberus]

He's not stronger then ike but has a more powerful combo game then ike

I don't think that's true. Ike has more combos when it matters: KO percents. He can combo into KO moves.

Until Roy was introduced, Ike was the uncontested heavy hitter of the Fire Emblem series in Sm4sh. However, with Roy's introductions and buffs from Melee, I feel like we may have a new contender for that spot. Here are a few reasons as to why I feel this way:

• Roy's side-smash is possibly the best in the game, as it's both fast and is strangely powerful enough to kill at ludicrously low percentages. Ike's side-smash, while strong, is far to slow to be nearly as staggering as Roy's. It's a good kill move, but Roy's can be thrown out less sparingly due to its speed. It also has an easy-to-land sweet spot.

• Roy's Up-Smash is a multi-hitting move, allowing it to rack up extra damage before sending the foe flying. Even if it doesn't kill, it'll hurt. Ike's up-smash, while powerful in its own right, is both slower and doesn't hold combo potential as well as Roy's. Ike's up-smash, however, has wider range.

• Roy's down-smash is both quick enough and strong enough to be used as an effective tool for quickly distancing yourself from opponents who are pressuring you. Ike's can do the same, but not at nearly as safe a speed.

• Roy's up-special is, while less handy for recovering than Ike's, a terrifyingly effective tool for both damaging quickly and chaining combos. Ike's has enough startup for wise opponents to roll away from it.

Based on these few points alone, I find it believable that Roy may be a more effective heavy hitter than his series' resident heavy hitter. While Ike will always hit harder, Roy's more widespread practicality and diversity make him (In my opinion, at least) a more widespread terror in a lot of ways. It's amazing what a bit of speed added to powerful attacks can do for a character.

So, tell me, what do you think of this idea?

Roy's f-smash is better than Ike's, but far from the best in the game. Little Mac comes to mind. Besides, you can't just look at the move in a vacuum. Marth can combo into his tipper f-smash, so he has an easier time landing it against a skilled player. Therefore, I think Marth's f-smash is ultimately more useful.

Also, Roy's up smash isn't that good. Lucina's is the best of the three. (Meaning Marth, Roy, and Lucina.) And Ike's is one of the best in the game.

Ike might not hit as hard, but he's a much more viable character.

 

[JohnnyB]

Keep in mind that although Roy is faster than the other FE characters, he also has the shortest sword. Ike may be the slowest but his sword is the second longest in the game next to shulk. Its spacing vs speed i suppose.

I mean Roy is still a beast, but he has downsides. I also think that after the buffs Marth and Lucina have received, that the three of them are probably in a similar spot in the tier list.

 

[ArikadoSD]

I don't understand how people think the FE characters are close in the tier list. Roy is pretty much agreed to be high tier, better than falcon, and Marcina are pretty much low mid/mid mid at best. Then there's Ike who's probably like somewhere around mid tier (low mid I'd say) and I have no idea where Robin would be.. I mean sure Marcina and Ike are both in mid tier but Roy's high tier imo.

Marth has potential to go higher though. He's slowly getting results and people are slowly getting to acknowledge him as a threat.

 

[Flukey]

we are just discussing this in the matchup thread and there are a few videos y the video critique thread you should check that.
Ike smash attacks are more about set-ups and his up smash is great for covering ledge recovery, jump and roll will get hit by this move.

And unlike Roy, most of Ike's aerial attacks auto cancels and has less struggle when recovering from off stage. The last two patches really buffed Marcina and Ike and are a force to reckon with now, and believe it or not Roy has a hard time against these characters, there are no solid reps that's all. Ike is more defensive and out ranges all of Roy's attacks, Marcina has better edge guarding game and faster aerials better for spacing, which can gimp Roy really easily.

Robin in the other hand, that D-throw buff is awesome, he now has a D-throw to U-air in kill percents combo, but getting a grab is still difficult, none of his moves auto cancels and has horrible landing lags, and his back throw takes way longer to kill. I love Robin but getting the kill is really difficult with him.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Roy has a better Fsmash. But if you're playing competitively you won't be wanting to throw that attack out too much. Just because it looks fast doesn't mean it can't be punished badly.

Ike in all reality, probably has a better time killing than Roy does due to Roy's safe hit/sourspot dilemma. Roy's moves are pretty safe enough when spaced but the problem is Roy can't kill from his "safe spots" at all unless it's a good gimp off stage.

Ike on the other hand does not suffer from that. Therefore, he can Ftilt you at the tip of his blade and still kill you as early as the base of the blade. Even Ike's aerials have more kb than Roy's.

So yeah, Roy's got power to match Ike but Roy's gotta be risky and get close in there to actually make that statement true.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

I find when I'm playing against Ike online I can often get into his range and counter before his smash hits. On top of that, many of the Ikes I see online have difficulty dealing with DED, and they never seem to see the dthrow > up b mixup. Also, if you can bait an airdodge or a counter after dthrow, you get a free charged fsmash, which is devastating no matter who you're hitting.

 

[GenG]

This match is a matter of outplaying and outmaneuvering the Ike in footsies with your retreating attacks, fast fall, well placed nair hits and baiting shields for grabs. You cannot challenge his range and one single hit from fair/bair/ftilt could be fatal. It's a very fun and balanced match overall that can go both ways if both players know what they are doing.

 

[Gawain]

This is how I see it, since it's a fairly contentious point.

Ike beats Roy in the matchup. Not by much, but he definitely beats Roy. Roy's optimal "zone" is at the edge of Ike's. This is the same problem Roy has vs Marth. I think that Roy wins more matchups that matter than Ike does though. They're not very far from each other, but I think Roy wins when it counts more than Ike.

 

[MagiusNecros]

By mechanics Roy can hit harder while Ike can make his hits count each time.

Plus Smash Counter is pretty hype.

 

[shadenexus18]

I prefer Ike's Super Armor Aether over Roy's Up-Special. (even though it looks pretty cool too.)

 

[san.]

Ike's smashes are pretty bad. They're the worst part of his moveset.

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

Ike only has 1 good smash move (u smash) while Roy is fast enough to get his out at way less risk. While Roy has better combo potential, Ike really only need 2 hits in a combo to get something like 35%. Ike deals heavy damage and can KO pretty early, while Roy is able to do less damage but throw moves out more frequently. Id say the best comparison is of Melee Falcon to Melee Ganon, both viable and similar but play entirely different

 

[ArikadoSD]

Speaking of tournaments and sets I'll post this here, GFs of the last tournament I went to which was a qualifier. Big event is happening on the 5th.

Needless to say there are a lot of mistakes I did that I am aware of, and I actually learned a lot from this set and from rewatching it multiple times.

EOE also happens to be one of the best Peaches around and the best player in the irish PR :o

edit: damn this is in the wrong boards LOL my bad

 

[Tino]

Roy's smash attacks does have a huge amount of K.O. power but that doesn't make him stronger than Ike, whom he hits harder than Roy does.

 

[Rinku リンク]

I'd say they both almost have the same amount of KO power (aside from Roy's F-smash).

Roy has better options in close quarters while Ike is better when it comes to footsies.

I prefer Ike but both of them are really fun to play.

 

[TurboLink]

I don't think that's true. Ike has more combos when it matters: KO percents. He can combo into KO moves.


Roy's f-smash is better than Ike's, but far from the best in the game. Little Mac comes to mind. Besides, you can't just look at the move in a vacuum. Marth can combo into his tipper f-smash, so he has an easier time landing it against a skilled player. Therefore, I think Marth's f-smash is ultimately more useful.

Also, Roy's up smash isn't that good. Lucina's is the best of the three. (Meaning Marth, Roy, and Lucina.) And Ike's is one of the best in the game.

Ike might not hit as hard, but he's a much more viable character.

How does Marth combo into his forward smash? With Jab? But can't people just jump out of that?

 

[Lady Kuki]

Ike hits harder than Roy, so I consider him stronger.

 

[Pherae77]

How does Marth combo into his forward smash? With Jab? But can't people just jump out of that?

I was going to ask the same thing. And Roy can combo into his fsmash with a jab as well, which they can't jump out of. He can also fsmash after a d throw if they airdodge. Not a combo, but Roy can also land next to opponents and quickly throw out a sweetspotted fsmash as a mixup. Marth can't do this because he needs to space his tipper perfectly. So yeah, Roy's fsmash is definitely better and more useful than Marth's.

 

[Ryusei the Falling Star]

It depends on the pilot. Ike & Roy are part of my triumvirate (other is Link). I believe in the hands of competent players one will not fall easily to the other. A patient Ike can bide his time dodging Roy trying to pressure, punishing with grabs and lethal two- or three-hit brutal strings should Roy overreach. A relentless Roy will keep pressuring with hit and run tactics until an opening arises, then punishes with seemingly endless strings and combos, keeping Ike reeling and his pilot mentally unbalanced.

I admit Roy seems easier to pickup and has a lot more safe options than Ike. Roy's offstage game is better. But Ike shouldn't be underestimated. He can come back very easily with his monstrous strikes. I would say this MU is maybe 5%-7% in Roy's favor if both pilots are equally competent.

 

[Mario766]

I thought you said you played Ike.

You don't show it.

Ike's off-stage is mountains better than Roy's because of his recovery not being garbage, and he doesn't fall like a rock when he goes off-stage, letting him go much deeper than Roy. Ike has 4 safe aerials to throw out. Two of which are +0 on block, the other being -4 or -5. Roy is NOTHING like this. His only safe aerial in neutral is N-Air. Other than that Roy has to deal with his really absurdly bad shield dash, which is Marth/Lucina/Robin levels of bad.

Ike has better combos that are more guaranteed, has better kill options and has real kill confirms off grabs. Has a real edgeguard game, and is heavy so he makes better use of rage.

He also does more damage on hit, so he's stronger, in both power and play strength.