Krysco
Aeon Hero
I've already posted about this in the Knights of Elibe thread but I figured that since I keep updating it, I should just make a thread for it. So after a match with my cousin on T&C where I bthrew him onto one of the platforms I realized just how good Roy's throws are for getting people onto platforms. From there, I started testing and so far I've only done testing on Battlefield and with no di. I plan on doing this on every legal stage except for FD obviously and I'm debating doing it on Duck Hunt or Lylat Cruise. The platforms on DH are either too high or too small to the point that I feel left/right di should always prevent these frame traps. Lylat would just be very hard to get consistently since the stage tilts.
With that out of the way, here's the testing I've done so far:
| Character | % Range
| Mario | 32-49%
| Luigi | 22-31%
| Peach | 16-25%
| Bowser | 31-41%
| Yoshi | 25-34%
| Rosalina | 15-25%
| Bowser Jr | 37-65%
| Wario | 37-60%
| Donkey Kong | 38-69%
| Diddy Kong | 41-65%
| Game and Watch | 19-26%
| Little Mac | 27-66%
| Link | 37-58%
| Zelda | 22-36%
| Sheik | 35-47%
| Ganondorf | 42-62%
| Toon Link | 23-32%
| Samus | 25-38%
| Zero Suit Samus | 37-54%
| Pit | 29-48%
| Palutena | 26-35%
| Marth | 25-53%
| Ike | 38-65%
| Robin | 31-48%
| Duck Hunt Dog | 26-59%
| Kirby | 17-27%
| Dedede | 38-96%
| Meta Knight | 35-54%
| Fox | 42-57%
| Falco | 41-59%
| Pikachu | 31-47%
| Charizard | 29-39%
| Lucario | 32-64%
| Jigglypuff | 0% tumbles 7-11%
| Greninja | 36-46%
| ROB | 36-59%
| Ness | 24-36%
| Captain Falcon | 48-74%
| Villager | 25-37%
| Olimar | 20-35%
| Wii Fit Trainer | 24-32%
| Shulk (Vanilla) | 32-50%
| Shulk (Jump) | 45-74%
| Shulk (Speed) | 32-50%
| Shulk (Shield) | 117-141%
| Shulk (Buster) | 31-52%
| Shulk (Smash) |12-30%
| Doctor Mario | 32-49%
| Dark Pit | 29-48%
| Lucina | 25-53%
| Pac Man | 24-38%
| Mega Man | 44-73%
| Sonic | 30-44%
| Mewtwo | 26-43%
| Lucas | 27-37%
| Roy | 44-69%
| Ryu | 37-50%
| Cloud (No Limit) | 39-64%
| Cloud (Limit) | 45-78%
| Corrin | 36-62%
| Bayonetta | 40-60%
| Mii Brawler | 40-65%
| Mii Sword | 37-57%
| Mii Gunner | 31-46%
| Character | % Range
| Mario | 7-55%
| Luigi | 4-30%
| Peach | 2% tumbles at 4-16%
| Bowser | 32-54%
| Yoshi | 0% tumbles at 4-31%
| Rosalina | 0% tumbles at 3-26%
| Bowser Jr | 56-105%
| Wario | 4-55%
| Donkey Kong | 5-76%
| Diddy Kong | 16-84%
| Game and Watch | 8-27%
| Little Mac | 18-97%
| Link | 52-93%
| Zelda | 3-38%
| Sheik | 28-60%
| Ganondorf | 73-109%
| Toon Link | 0% tumbles at 4-31%
| Samus | 34-58%
| Zero Suit Samus | 42-78%
| Pit | 26-67%
| Palutena | 18-41%
| Marth | 4-63%
| Ike | 23-88%
| Robin | 10-55%
| Duck Hunt | 0% tumbles at 4-59%
| Kirby | 0% tumbles at 3-8%
| Dedede | 56-134%
| Meta Knight | 25-68%
| Fox | 43-81%
| Falco | 48-89%
| Pikachu | 3-46%
| Charizard | 17-43%
| Lucario | 4-77%
| Jigglypuff | 0% tumbles at 3%
| Greninja | 21-54%
| ROB | 0% tumbles at 4-34%
| Ness | 0& tumbles at 4-31%
| Captain Falcon | 62-115%
| Villager | 0% tumbles at 4-30%
| Olimar | 0% tumbles at 3-32%
| Wii Fit Trainer | 8-32%
| Shulk (Vanilla) | 10-58%
| Shulk (Jump) | 24-99-104%
| Shulk (Speed) | 10-58%
| Shulk (Shield) | 116-179%
| Shulk (Buster) | 9-58%
| Shulk (Smash) | 0-34%
| Doctor Mario | 7-55%
| Dark Pit | 26-67%
| Lucina | 4-63%
| Pac Man | 1% tumbles at 4-39%
| Megaman | 4-87%
| Sonic | 31-63%
| Mewtwo | 4-52%
| Lucas | 4-37%
| Roy | 23-92%
| Ryu | 45-76%
| Cloud (No Limit) | 19-84%
| Cloud (Limit) | 25-102%
| Corrin | 12-76%
| Bayonetta | 71-105%
| Mii Brawler | 21-86%
| Mii Sword | 19-73%
| MIi Gunner | 13-54%
The first percent is the earliest percent the throw pops them onto the platform. The second percent is the last percent they can't jump. These are all tested without di so with di down and away, the lower percent will go up and with up and towards di the higher percent will go down, tightening the window. These are 'frame traps' since the opponent is put onto a platform with their only options being tech, fail to tech and possibly air dodge and all of these can be answered by Roy with aerials, specials, utilt or usmash. At the percents that they can jump, they can likely also perform an aerial and get the early autocancel window. Left/right di can naturally make the opponent miss the platform altogether depending on where they are thrown. Jump Shulk has 3 percents for bthrow because the random post 100% spinning animation actually makes him take longer to jump away from the platform. Conversely, that same animation allows everyone else I've tested to be able to jump out sooner if their percent window exceeds 100%.
I will be testing this with di and on the other legal stages and seeing how much rage and the 1.05 freshness bonus effect this but that's for later. Will likely update this thread with a table rather than spoilers once I figure out how to do that.
The 1.05 freshness bonus does have minor effects on this.at 30% and at 40% were put on the platform of Battlefield with no di from dthrow, when in training, it doesn't work until 1% later. Buster Monado at 30% however, did not get put on the platform. Vanilla and Smash Monado were tested and none of them got put on the platform (their percent in training was 2 above thresholds I can test in an actual match with handicap.) Likewise, for bthrow with no di, at 0%, at 20% and at 30% were put on while were not.
| Character | DI Away | DI Up and Towards
| Mario | 41% | 47%
| Luigi | 30% | 29%
| Peach | 25% | 22%
| Bowser | 42% | 37%
| Yoshi | 34% | 32%
| Rosalina | 23% | 24%
| Bowser Jr. | 48% | 60%
| Wario | 48% | 58%
| Donkey Kong | 49% | 64%
| Diddy Kong | 51% | 63%
| Mr. Game & Watch | 26% | 24%
| Little Mac | 36% | 64%
| Link | 48% | 56%
| Zelda | 30% | 34%
| Sheik | 44% | 44%
| Ganondorf | 52% | 60%
| Toon Link | 31% | 30%
| Samus | 35% | 34%
| Zero Suit Samus | 46% | 50%
| Pit | 39% | 46%
| Palutena | 35% | 32%
| Marth | 35% | 51%
| Ike | 49% | 60%
| Robin | 41% | 46%
| Duck Hunt | 36% | 55%
| Kirby | 24% | 26%
| King Dedede | 50% | 91%
| Meta Knight | 45% | 50%
| Fox | 52% | 55%
| Falco | 50% | 57%
| Pikachu | 39% | 44%
| Charizard | 40% | 35%
| Lucario | 43% | 62%
| Jigglypuff | 14% | 10%
| Greninja | 46% | 45%
| R.O.B. | 46% | 57%
| Character | DI Down & Away | DI Up & Towards
| Mario | 67% | 31%
| Luigi | 59% | 8%
| Peach | 45% | 4%
| Bowser | 94+% | 29%
| Yoshi | 60% | 8%
| Rosalina | 51% | 7%
| Bowser Jr. | 94+% | 78%
| Wario | 39% | 29%
| Donkey Kong | 64% | 47%
| Diddy Kong | 78% | 55%
| Mr. Game & Watch | 62% | 8%
| Little Mac | 74% | 68%
| Link | 94+% | 67%
| Zelda | 53% | 17%
| Sheik | 65% | 39%
| Ganondorf | 94+% | 82%
| Toon Link | 61% | 10%
| Samus | 94+% | 35%
| Zero Suit Samus | 94+% | 56%
| Pit | 89% | 43%
| Palutena | 78% | 20%
| Marth | 55% | 39%
| Ike | 90% | 58%
| Robin | 70% | 32%
| Duck Hunt | 33% | 31%
| Kirby | 19% | 3%
| King Dedede | 94+% | 121%
| Meta Knight | 86% | 46%
| Fox | 94+% | 58%
| Falco | 94+% | 66%
| Pikachu | 48% | 22%
| Charizard | 83% | 20%
| Lucario | 62% | 52%
| Jigglypuff | 4% | 0%
| Greninja | 87% | 31%
| R.O.B. | N/A | 9%
For the DI testings, the percent under DI away is the highest percent the character can avoid the platform by di'ing away while the percent under up and towards is the lowest percent di'ing up and towards lets them jump. This means that they are forced into a tech scenario regardless of di if their percent is above that of di down and below that of di up and away. For example, Mario is forced into a tech scenario from 42-46% but Luigi is never forced into a tech scenario.
The reason for the 94+% being so frequent in the bthrow di testing is that, with a fresh bthrow doing 5%, once your opponent reaches 95%, they can start entering the spinning launch animation which allows them to avoid the platform even easier and it's common among heavy characters and fast fallers.
Thanks to EnGarde for the tables
With that out of the way, here's the testing I've done so far:
| Character | % Range | Mario | 32-49% | Luigi | 22-31% | Peach | 16-25% | Bowser | 31-41% | Yoshi | 25-34% | Rosalina | 15-25% | Bowser Jr | 37-65% | Wario | 37-60% | Donkey Kong | 38-69% | Diddy Kong | 41-65% | Game and Watch | 19-26% | Little Mac | 27-66% | Link | 37-58% | Zelda | 22-36% | Sheik | 35-47% | Ganondorf | 42-62% | Toon Link | 23-32% | Samus | 25-38% | Zero Suit Samus | 37-54% | Pit | 29-48% | Palutena | 26-35% | Marth | 25-53% | Ike | 38-65% | Robin | 31-48% | Duck Hunt Dog | 26-59% | Kirby | 17-27% | Dedede | 38-96% | Meta Knight | 35-54% | Fox | 42-57% | Falco | 41-59% | Pikachu | 31-47% | Charizard | 29-39% | Lucario | 32-64% | Jigglypuff | 0% tumbles 7-11% | Greninja | 36-46% | ROB | 36-59% | Ness | 24-36% | Captain Falcon | 48-74% | Villager | 25-37% | Olimar | 20-35% | Wii Fit Trainer | 24-32% | Shulk (Vanilla) | 32-50% | Shulk (Jump) | 45-74% | Shulk (Speed) | 32-50% | Shulk (Shield) | 117-141% | Shulk (Buster) | 31-52% | Shulk (Smash) |12-30% | Doctor Mario | 32-49% | Dark Pit | 29-48% | Lucina | 25-53% | Pac Man | 24-38% | Mega Man | 44-73% | Sonic | 30-44% | Mewtwo | 26-43% | Lucas | 27-37% | Roy | 44-69% | Ryu | 37-50% | Cloud (No Limit) | 39-64% | Cloud (Limit) | 45-78% | Corrin | 36-62% | Bayonetta | 40-60% | Mii Brawler | 40-65% | Mii Sword | 37-57% | Mii Gunner | 31-46% | Character | % Range | Mario | 7-55% | Luigi | 4-30% | Peach | 2% tumbles at 4-16% | Bowser | 32-54% | Yoshi | 0% tumbles at 4-31% | Rosalina | 0% tumbles at 3-26% | Bowser Jr | 56-105% | Wario | 4-55% | Donkey Kong | 5-76% | Diddy Kong | 16-84% | Game and Watch | 8-27% | Little Mac | 18-97% | Link | 52-93% | Zelda | 3-38% | Sheik | 28-60% | Ganondorf | 73-109% | Toon Link | 0% tumbles at 4-31% | Samus | 34-58% | Zero Suit Samus | 42-78% | Pit | 26-67% | Palutena | 18-41% | Marth | 4-63% | Ike | 23-88% | Robin | 10-55% | Duck Hunt | 0% tumbles at 4-59% | Kirby | 0% tumbles at 3-8% | Dedede | 56-134% | Meta Knight | 25-68% | Fox | 43-81% | Falco | 48-89% | Pikachu | 3-46% | Charizard | 17-43% | Lucario | 4-77% | Jigglypuff | 0% tumbles at 3% | Greninja | 21-54% | ROB | 0% tumbles at 4-34% | Ness | 0& tumbles at 4-31% | Captain Falcon | 62-115% | Villager | 0% tumbles at 4-30% | Olimar | 0% tumbles at 3-32% | Wii Fit Trainer | 8-32% | Shulk (Vanilla) | 10-58% | Shulk (Jump) | 24-99-104% | Shulk (Speed) | 10-58% | Shulk (Shield) | 116-179% | Shulk (Buster) | 9-58% | Shulk (Smash) | 0-34% | Doctor Mario | 7-55% | Dark Pit | 26-67% | Lucina | 4-63% | Pac Man | 1% tumbles at 4-39% | Megaman | 4-87% | Sonic | 31-63% | Mewtwo | 4-52% | Lucas | 4-37% | Roy | 23-92% | Ryu | 45-76% | Cloud (No Limit) | 19-84% | Cloud (Limit) | 25-102% | Corrin | 12-76% | Bayonetta | 71-105% | Mii Brawler | 21-86% | Mii Sword | 19-73% | MIi Gunner | 13-54%I will be testing this with di and on the other legal stages and seeing how much rage and the 1.05 freshness bonus effect this but that's for later. Will likely update this thread with a table rather than spoilers once I figure out how to do that.
The 1.05 freshness bonus does have minor effects on this.
at 30% and at 40% were put on the platform of Battlefield with no di from dthrow, when in training, it doesn't work until 1% later. Buster Monado at 30% however, did not get put on the platform. Vanilla and Smash Monado were tested and none of them got put on the platform (their percent in training was 2 above thresholds I can test in an actual match with handicap.) Likewise, for bthrow with no di, at 0%, at 20% and at 30% were put on while were not. | Character | DI Away | DI Up and Towards | Mario | 41% | 47% | Luigi | 30% | 29% | Peach | 25% | 22% | Bowser | 42% | 37% | Yoshi | 34% | 32% | Rosalina | 23% | 24% | Bowser Jr. | 48% | 60% | Wario | 48% | 58% | Donkey Kong | 49% | 64% | Diddy Kong | 51% | 63% | Mr. Game & Watch | 26% | 24% | Little Mac | 36% | 64% | Link | 48% | 56% | Zelda | 30% | 34% | Sheik | 44% | 44% | Ganondorf | 52% | 60% | Toon Link | 31% | 30% | Samus | 35% | 34% | Zero Suit Samus | 46% | 50% | Pit | 39% | 46% | Palutena | 35% | 32% | Marth | 35% | 51% | Ike | 49% | 60% | Robin | 41% | 46% | Duck Hunt | 36% | 55% | Kirby | 24% | 26% | King Dedede | 50% | 91% | Meta Knight | 45% | 50% | Fox | 52% | 55% | Falco | 50% | 57% | Pikachu | 39% | 44% | Charizard | 40% | 35% | Lucario | 43% | 62% | Jigglypuff | 14% | 10% | Greninja | 46% | 45% | R.O.B. | 46% | 57% | Character | DI Down & Away | DI Up & Towards | Mario | 67% | 31% | Luigi | 59% | 8% | Peach | 45% | 4% | Bowser | 94+% | 29% | Yoshi | 60% | 8% | Rosalina | 51% | 7% | Bowser Jr. | 94+% | 78% | Wario | 39% | 29% | Donkey Kong | 64% | 47% | Diddy Kong | 78% | 55% | Mr. Game & Watch | 62% | 8% | Little Mac | 74% | 68% | Link | 94+% | 67% | Zelda | 53% | 17% | Sheik | 65% | 39% | Ganondorf | 94+% | 82% | Toon Link | 61% | 10% | Samus | 94+% | 35% | Zero Suit Samus | 94+% | 56% | Pit | 89% | 43% | Palutena | 78% | 20% | Marth | 55% | 39% | Ike | 90% | 58% | Robin | 70% | 32% | Duck Hunt | 33% | 31% | Kirby | 19% | 3% | King Dedede | 94+% | 121% | Meta Knight | 86% | 46% | Fox | 94+% | 58% | Falco | 94+% | 66% | Pikachu | 48% | 22% | Charizard | 83% | 20% | Lucario | 62% | 52% | Jigglypuff | 4% | 0% | Greninja | 87% | 31% | R.O.B. | N/A | 9%The reason for the 94+% being so frequent in the bthrow di testing is that, with a fresh bthrow doing 5%, once your opponent reaches 95%, they can start entering the spinning launch animation which allows them to avoid the platform even easier and it's common among heavy characters and fast fallers.
Thanks to EnGarde for the tables
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