Meta Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Mii Gunner

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Mii Gunner

Welcome to the Rosalina vs. Mii Gunner match-up analysis thread. This thread will be used to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Mii Gunner. For all the rules on the round 2 match-up discussions, please refer to the directory thread.

Mii Gunner is able to use its custom special moves, even if customs are turned OFF. For this thread, however, both Rosalina and the Mii Gunner have to use their default 1111 spread for the match-up to count as being "Default only".

Last Updated: 12/27/2015

Special Moves Allowed| |
Default only | | +1
Default + Custom | | +0.5

Spoiler: Score Inputs

Default only
Djmarcus44: +1

Default + Custom
Djmarcus44: ±0 - +1

 

[AEMehr]

Big discussion here.
Well, as stated in the Brawler Swordfighter thread, a good majority of Mii Fighter players are fighting for them to be allowed to use all of their Special Moves as the characters are designed to be able to use them at any time. I play 1111 Gunner when I go to Tournaments so I can share what I know I guess.

Gunner does her best work with zoning, her main approach open in 1111 being her Forward Aerial, which is a projectile.
Though, since Rosalina could just shut down her approach with spamming Down Special, Gunner's ability to approach just got super difficult.

Gunner isn't super good up close, because pretty much all of her normals are "Get-off me"s and are pretty slow on startup it two / three exceptions. Though in this matchup, this isn't really that bad of a thing since they'll send Luma flying and Rosalina's light weight means killing her with the normals will be much easier.

1111 Gunner also has Up Special 1, Lunar Launch, to act as an answer to getting chased by Rosa's Up Aerials, but I believe it'll just clank and end the move rather than punishing Rosalina for chasing her. Down Special 1 is a Reflector, so if you're caught charging up Luma Shot you've put yourself in a bad situation.

She can kill with Neutral Special 1, Charged Shot, but she mostly likely won't land it unless you're unable to act because you're in hitstun or something since it's super easy to get rid of for you.

 

[Djmarcus44]

Big discussion here.
Well, as stated in the Brawler Swordfighter thread, a good majority of Mii Fighter players are fighting for them to be allowed to use all of their Special Moves as the characters are designed to be able to use them at any time. I play 1111 Gunner when I go to Tournaments so I can share what I know I guess.

Gunner does her best work with zoning, her main approach open in 1111 being her Forward Aerial, which is a projectile.
Though, since Rosalina could just shut down her approach with spamming Down Special, Gunner's ability to approach just got super difficult.

Gunner isn't super good up close, because pretty much all of her normals are "Get-off me"s and are pretty slow on startup it two / three exceptions. Though in this matchup, this isn't really that bad of a thing since they'll send Luma flying and Rosalina's light weight means killing her with the normals will be much easier.

1111 Gunner also has Up Special 1, Lunar Launch, to act as an answer to getting chased by Rosa's Up Aerials, but I believe it'll just clank and end the move rather than punishing Rosalina for chasing her. Down Special 1 is a Reflector, so if you're caught charging up Luma Shot you've put yourself in a bad situation.

She can kill with Neutral Special 1, Charged Shot, but she mostly likely won't land it unless you're unable to act because you're in hitstun or something since it's super easy to get rid of for you.

Actually, ground level fair will allow Gunner to win the neutral against Gravitational Pull due to the low landing lag on the aerial and the high end lag on Gravitational pull. Fair beats out Rosalina and Luma's neutral b and it outranges all of her other moves. Although Mii Gunner won't get much damage from fair, its safety will make it worth using. Rosalina and Luma's best option is to perfect shield gunner's fair and force a stalemate with Luma's range.

Both characters can juggle and edgeguard each other very well, but Rosalina and Luma's superior combo game gives her an advantage in the matchup. Gunner can mitigate this advantage with his/her ease in knocking Luma off of the stage (dash attack, down smash, and forward smash are good for this) or killing Luma (Gunner's flame pillar is an infinite on Luma. The only thing that can stop it is Rosalina's Gravitational Pull). When Luma is gone Gunner is able to have an easier time racking up damage and killing, but Rosalina can do a good job of avoiding the damage due to Gravitational Pull making it harder for Gunner to deal damage.

I think that Rosalina and Luma win this matchup 60:40, but Mii Gunner can still do well in this matchup by safely attacking Luma with fair and by taking advantage of Rosalina's poor disadvantage state without Luma. With 3312 the matchup ratio is 55:45 in Rosalina's and Luma's favor because of her reward when Luma is there. The matchup is better with 3312 because Gunner gets a few more options to bait Gravitational Pull and more guaranteed combos with the moveset change.

 

[AEMehr]

Actually, ground level fair will allow Gunner to win the neutral against Gravitational Pull due to the low landing lag on the aerial and the high end lag on Gravitational pull. Fair beats out Rosalina and Luma's neutral b and it outranges all of her other moves. Although Mii Gunner won't get much damage from fair, its safety will make it worth using. Rosalina and Luma's best option is to perfect shield gunner's fair and force a stalemate with Luma's range.

Both characters can juggle and edgeguard each other very well, but Rosalina and Luma's superior combo game gives her an advantage in the matchup. Gunner can mitigate this advantage with his/her ease in knocking Luma off of the stage (dash attack, down smash, and forward smash are good for this) or killing Luma (Gunner's flame pillar is an infinite on Luma. The only thing that can stop it is Rosalina's Gravitational Pull). When Luma is gone Gunner is able to have an easier time racking up damage and killing, but Rosalina can do a good job of avoiding the damage due to Gravitational Pull making it harder for Gunner to deal damage.

I think that Rosalina and Luma win this matchup 60:40, but Mii Gunner can still do well in this matchup by safely attacking Luma with fair and by taking advantage of Rosalina's poor disadvantage state without Luma. With 3312 the matchup ratio is 55:45 in Rosalina's and Luma's favor because of her reward when Luma is there. The matchup is better with 3312 because Gunner gets a few more options to bait Gravitational Pull and more guaranteed combos with the moveset change.

Basically, yeah.

Though iunno about the fair thing, sure the low lag is a thing, but you need to bait out Graivitational Pull when approaching.
When you approach with Fair, you usually face away to Gundash towards your opponent, as using it towards them pushes you away from them, or at least kills momentum. Meaning you'll probably most likely land a Dash Attack at best or maybe a Down Smash if you're lucky (even then she falls out it pretty often) since any and all projectiles are null during her Down B. Definitely worth looking into imo I rely a lot on Fair for movement so I should play around with approaching with it offensively as opposed to using it for it's speed utility.

 

[Djmarcus44]

Basically, yeah.

Though iunno about the fair thing, sure the low lag is a thing, but you need to bait out Graivitational Pull when approaching.
When you approach with Fair, you usually face away to Gundash towards your opponent, as using it towards them pushes you away from them, or at least kills momentum. Meaning you'll probably most likely land a Dash Attack at best or maybe a Down Smash if you're lucky (even then she falls out it pretty often) since any and all projectiles are null during her Down B. Definitely worth looking into imo I rely a lot on Fair for movement so I should play around with approaching with it offensively as opposed to using it for it's speed utility.

Rosalina's Gravitational Pull starts on frame 2 and ends on frame 45, while Gunner's fair comes out on frame 10 and has only 12 frames of landing lag. Even if Rosalina and Luma get a read and Gravitational Pull when fair is about to start up, you still have 23 frames to move in and attack your opponent. I tested it with a level 9 computer multiple times (this is the one time when testing something with them is accurate due to their frame perfect reactions) and there is enough time to at least get a dashgrab on Rosalina or a dash attack on Luma depending on where he is. If the opponent isn't frame perfect with their shielding or reacts to fair when it is already out, then Gunner will be able to get a good hit (possibly a jump canceled up smash) on Rosalina and Luma and win the neutral.

Gundashing toward the opponent isn't always a safe option. It is safer to approach with shorthop fair in most matchups. In other matchups it is a good idea to charge up charge blast or mix in other moves (sh nair, sh flame pillar, sh bair for approaching, and perfect pivot ftilt, fsmash, and flame pillar for retreating). Although gundashing toward the opponent is a good mixup for approaching, it is pretty easy for an opponent to punish Gunner in the air if it is used too often.

 

[AEMehr]

Rosalina's Gravitational Pull starts on frame 2 and ends on frame 45, while Gunner's fair comes out on frame 10 and has only 12 frames of landing lag. Even if Rosalina and Luma get a read and Gravitational Pull when fair is about to start up, you still have 23 frames to move in and attack your opponent. I tested it with a level 9 computer multiple times (this is the one time when testing something with them is accurate due to their frame perfect reactions) and there is enough time to at least get a dashgrab on Rosalina or a dash attack on Luma depending on where he is. If the opponent isn't frame perfect with their shielding or reacts to fair when it is already out, then Gunner will be able to get a good hit (possibly a jump canceled up smash) on Rosalina and Luma and win the neutral.

Gundashing toward the opponent isn't always a safe option. It is safer to approach with shorthop fair in most matchups. In other matchups it is a good idea to charge up charge blast or mix in other moves (sh nair, sh flame pillar, sh bair for approaching, and perfect pivot ftilt, fsmash, and flame pillar for retreating). Although gundashing toward the opponent is a good mixup for approaching, it is pretty easy for an opponent to punish Gunner in the air if it is used too often.

If you're patient enough I guess. Just landing Dash Attacks / Dash Grabs for the punish don't seem suitable enough imo, unless Rosa is around Dash Attack's kill % it seems like it would be a bad idea to use it over and over again anyways.

And I never said it was a safe option, but it is still the best way to move around lol.

 

[Djmarcus44]

If you're patient enough I guess. Just landing Dash Attacks / Dash Grabs for the punish don't seem suitable enough imo, unless Rosa is around Dash Attack's kill % it seems like it would be a bad idea to use it over and over again anyways.

And I never said it was a safe option, but it is still the best way to move around lol.

Although it can be painstaking to use sh fair to eventually get an attack, the pace of the match will be faster when Luma is gone. With the right positioning, Gunner can get rid of Luma with one hit. The only reason why ground level fair can be used repeatedly is because it keeps both Rosalina and Luma out, but you are right that Gunner should probably mix things up sometimes (especially if Gunner gets behind in this matchup).

You are right about Gundashing, it helps to make up for our slow running speed.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Mii Gunner is being analyzed again for this week. If you have anything to contribute for the match-up, especially in regards to the newest software update, this is the place to do it.

 

[Ridel]

Nothing has really changed. What AEMehr and D Djmarcus44 wrote pretty much sum it up.

 

[AEMehr]

Unless you Rosalina players have anything to offer, there's not much else to discuss.