ROB and Falcon are annihilating me.

[Unkie Mike]

So, I'm having trouble fighting two local players who play a legit, tournament-caliber ROB and C. Falc, respectively. Any tips to resolve my concerns below are appreciated:

1. ROB - Jesu Cristo, this guy's aerials are the size of Manhattan. I find an aerial approach nearly impossible, due to his nair, dair, and up air eliminating my nair and fair and up air as options, if he feels like taking to the skies. On the ground, side b hacks through my shield, is difficult to punish with PK fire or grab, and forces a retreat. His projectiles are quick, difficult to magnet if he's got a top, and hard to predict if he switches between multiple tactics, and there just seems like there's so much I have to keep track of to stay safe (how charged his auto-charging laser is, if he's got a top spun up, etc.) in addition to the normal spacing and chasing game. I feel like I need to be in his face, but it only takes one ROB nair at mid-hundreds percentages to knock me the eff out.

2. Falcon - I feel like Ness's biggest weakness, his lack of safe landing options, is the biggest advantage the Captain has in this matchup. If Falcon is in the center of the stage during the neutral game, his blinding speed allows him to punish even distant landings, not to mention the vast majority of Ness's moveset if he manages to block or avoid a move. And unlike other fast characters like Sheik and ZSS, Falcon actually has great kill moves at modest percentages (bair, fsmash, the knee). My strategy so far has just been to try and catch him with PK fire, a grab, or dash sparkles during his dashing shoulder charge or an unsafe roll, or get him off the ground and harass him with Thunder, but that can only work for so long, and if he avoids it, it's a free punish for big percentage gains.

 

[KingCesar]

Falcon is one of my easiest match ups. ROB on the other hand is 50/50

 

[Spaceman]

Rob is way harder than falcon, it's easier to say ROB is just not a good ness MU.

 

[Eagleye893]

Rob's SideB is so good in this game. Idk how they did it.

"How to deal with these guys":

--ROB, I don't really have enough experience against good ROBs. He has some great spacing options, though his DAir and BAir are slightly slower in this game. The gyro is something you must grab, if you can. If not, just avoid it. His full charged laser is decently fast enough to the point where it's hard to react and absorb or reflect, AND our PSImagnet doesn't halt momentum anymore, so it's that much better of an edgeguarding option for him. The main point of this game is learning the disjoints on his attacks. With SideB, you just have to expect him to use it when you go for PK-Fires because our move comes out pretty slowly; he can also use it pretty consistently because of how short-ranged our moves are in general. If it weren't for that move, I would say that it was an even matchup or in our favor because of our buffs from Brawl to Smash4, but ROB received a decent buff.

--CFalc, I haven't played a good one yet... I don't wanna give bad advice.

 

[wingedarcher7]

I actually played against a good ROB yesterday in a 2 out of three. I beat him the first time, second game was close but he won and the third game I won again.

Let me tell you that he did everything you just mentioned and it was frustrating to go against. I could easily predict his moves, but there was so little I could do about it. His down special would come at me quickly and knock me away, which he would pick up and throw at me. If I shielded, he would fire his neutral special, which I can absorb but was rarely fast enough to do so and usually had to shield that too. His side specials would reflect my PK Fires and pummel my shield to nothing and he kept using his nair like there was no tomorrow. The safety on that move is ridiculous. It has no risk, plenty of range everywhere, and does a great amount of damage. The match up itself was just excruciatingly frustrating because I hardly had anything to react fast enough even if I knew what he would be doing.

When it came to what I had to do, it involved a lot of reading. I had to predict his aerial attacks, his side B and usually punish him in his recovery frames by grabbing and throwing him. It came to be that he was following the same basic pattern all the time and I had to think one step ahead of him. Not to mention that I even landed my dair on him a few times, but it didn't matter with ROB's recovery. The fights were still difficult, but I managed to pull through in the end.

I wish I could give you better advice on how to fight a ROB when it comes to general situations, but I can't besides just trying to outsmart your opponent. The match up is a pain in the ass.

 

[Ranias]

ROB is the harder of the two in my opinion, since his projectile game is really good, and his aerials have long range.

ROB can be juggled kind of easily though. It's really safe to just spam PK Thunder on him since he is floaty. Loop it into his path if he airdodges. Also, his Down Air comes out kind of slow, so you might be able to sneak in Up Airs on him. Try to limit your PK Fire usage since he can just reflect it safely with his Side B.

Falcon has no defensive moves so he is really susceptible to your projectiles. Try to land your projectiles smartly so you don't get hit after a miss. He can be PK Thunder juggled as well, but watch out for his Down B.

 

[thesage]

The only thing Rob can do against pkt juggling is side-b or trying to cancel it with fair/uair. His other moves are too slow. He's so floaty that after a d-throw combo you can just u-throw him to set up juggles.

 

[SageEnder]

I cant speak much on rob, because I dont play many good ones,

but one of my best friends play a mean falcon, generally against falcon you dont want to use pk fire in neutral, he can generally punish it, pk fire is a really good edgeguarding tool when he is sitting on the ledge though because if he waits out the invincibility, it can knock him off and allow for more pkt1.

you also dont say that you use many aireals, short hop fair beats out many of falcons options and can combo and mix in nairs so you dont get predictable, and dash attack is generally another pretty safe option because it clinks with his dash attack and beats his dash grab,
approach with grab sparringly because his dash grab has much bigger range, I use it sparring as a mixup, but in my opinion better used as a punish.

I also like to use up air alot as a juggling tool, and you can short hop up air for a deceptive kill move. also when he gets into the habit of punishing thunder you can bait it and hit yourself for a flashy early kill move, which if you use sparringly can have great success,

also cuz I never get bored of watching and sharing this enjoy
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[EarthBoundEnigma]

R.O.B. is actually one of the only characters I can always sweetspot a dair on. His recovery is easy to meteor and his nair and uair leave him open so it isn't too hard to get a good hit in.
Remember: you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Falcon is an even match. You'll have to limit yourself to only using Ness' least laggy moves because Falcon is a fast character. This means almost exclusively using fair, nair, jabs, and throws. (Uair and bair when you can.)
Don't PK Fire except to punish. Don't dash attack ever. PKT only when you're sure you're safe.

 

[Lanayru3]

If you can get Falcon off the stage, you've already got quite a good advantage because of how easy it is to gimp his recovery. Ness' Fairs are great in gimping Falcon, especially if you can connect at least two of it, since it sends Falcon really far away from the stage and makes it really difficult for him to recover.

 

[Yink]

I'm glad you guys gave such good answers. In the future though, I'll ask that you please ask a question like this in the Matchup Discussion thread found here: http://smashboards.com/threads/difficult-matchups-ask-matchup-questions-here.371539/. I'm going to go ahead and lock this now then and in a little while, merge it with that thread. Thanks guys!