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Request: Side-B guide, with KO specifics?

Tane

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 1, 2011
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SLC, UT
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2122-6733-6416
I'm learning that side B has a lot of potential in-game for KOs, but I don't know a whole lot about it or how to test it. Is there anybody out there who feels confident enough to put together a guide on killing with side B?

Parts I'm curious about:

  • Which parts of it can KO at what percents
  • Hitboxes at certain times and their attributes
    • I think some parts of it have super armor or similar?
    • It looks like there aren't any hitboxes at specific points
  • Can it be autocanceled? i.e. is there a certain height above ground where you can land laglessly?
  • Super armor?
  • Using it as coverage
  • Specifics on how to make it most powerful (if any)
I wish I could do it myself or at least help out, but I don't have much time on my hands for testing with school and work and such. :( But I'll contribute whatever knowledge I can.

Thx in advance <3
 
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LanceStern

Smash Lord
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Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,636
Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
I'm learning that side B has a lot of potential in-game for KOs, but I don't know a whole lot about it or how to test it. Is there anybody out there who feels confident enough to put together a guide on killing with side B?

Parts I'm curious about:

  • Which parts of it can KO at what percents
  • Hitboxes at certain times and their attributes
    • I think some parts of it have super armor or similar?
    • It looks like there aren't any hitboxes at specific points
  • Can it be autocanceled? i.e. is there a certain height above ground where you can land laglessly?
  • Super armor?
  • Using it as coverage
  • Specifics on how to make it most powerful (if any)
I wish I could do it myself or at least help out, but I don't have much time on my hands for testing with school and work and such. :( But I'll contribute whatever knowledge I can.

Thx in advance <3
The Pacman's basics guide by ptrk83 is a small start to summarize it. I would like to help but I don't have time to dedicate to it either.

I'm interested in point 3, because if we found a way to cancel the lag that would be amazing! As of now I jump a little bit off stage and point it towards the ledge so that I hit the opponent and then drop to auto-snap the ledge
 

Tane

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
437
Location
SLC, UT
3DS FC
2122-6733-6416
I'm interested in point 3, because if we found a way to cancel the lag that would be amazing! As of now I jump a little bit off stage and point it towards the ledge so that I hit the opponent and then drop to auto-snap the ledge
I've tried edge-canceling it (or whatever it's called) but I haven't gotten that to work. Weird part is that I can get Pika's quick attack to edge-cancel but just can't get side B to for whatever reason. Frustrating. But yeah auto-snapping the ledge is super good. For edgeguarding I'll sometimes grab the ledge, drop a bit, side b away from the stage and then loop it back to auto-snap. Pretty useful situationally.
 

dr_six

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Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
39
The hydrant will boost your side-b. All you need to do is throw the hydrant down, run off of it, side b towards the hydrant, and then turn the pellet around into another direction.
 

BSP

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I believe the idea of using the pellet to absorb projectiles was thrown out. Maybe against slower firing campers like Samus, it may have some use.

I haven't been able to make the move auto cancel at all.

I get my bet uses out of it when I confirm it from dropping hydrants on people.
 
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dr_six

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
39
A type of auto cancel you can do with it is by going towards the ground to start your tumbling motion, and then land on top of the hydrant. I've noticed that you can perform a move immediately after that.
 

LanceStern

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Messages
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Location
San Diego, CA. (619)
I've tried edge-canceling it (or whatever it's called) but I haven't gotten that to work. Weird part is that I can get Pika's quick attack to edge-cancel but just can't get side B to for whatever reason. Frustrating. But yeah auto-snapping the ledge is super good. For edgeguarding I'll sometimes grab the ledge, drop a bit, side b away from the stage and then loop it back to auto-snap. Pretty useful situationally.
Yep I love doing it. It's fancy too
 

BSP

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Bumping this because Side B is our lagging special right now. Let's see if we can pull more out of it.
 

Nu~

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It can combo into galaxian. If the opponent is hit into the air, we can follow up with a side B while the galaxian has them trapped.
It's also amazing for catching rolls
 
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Tane

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It can combo into galaxian. If the opponent is hit into the air, we can follow up with a side B while the galaxian has them trapped.
It's also amazing for catching rolls
Catching rolls is one of my favorite things to use it for. I also like to use it for covering air dodge landings, but the timing has to be pretty damn tight to not get shielded and then easily ( :( ) punished.

One technique that I've found to be pretty useful is if someone is chasing me offstage I'll loop it around backwards (away from them, like farther offstage), but have it fully loop to either hit their lag time or sweet spot the ledge.

I think what we need is someone who can figure out/explain in detail the mechanics of the move.

Does it get stronger the farther it goes? How strong? When does super armor kick in? Etc.
 

WeirdChillFever

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Catching rolls is one of my favorite things to use it for. I also like to use it for covering air dodge landings, but the timing has to be pretty damn tight to not get shielded and then easily ( :( ) punished.

One technique that I've found to be pretty useful is if someone is chasing me offstage I'll loop it around backwards (away from them, like farther offstage), but have it fully loop to either hit their lag time or sweet spot the ledge.

I think what we need is someone who can figure out/explain in detail the mechanics of the move.

Does it get stronger the farther it goes? How strong? When does super armor kick in? Etc.
It doesn't get stronger AFAIK, and the Armor kicks in when Pac eats the big pellet IIRC
 

Firedemon0

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It doesn't get stronger AFAIK, and the Armor kicks in when Pac eats the big pellet IIRC
This is incorrect, It will do more knock back and damage the further it goes. I shall explain my thoughts on Side-B however.

Side-B is the highest risk/reward move Pac-man has. It has its strongest use as a laggy move punish and kill move. When fully extended it kills the heaviest of characters around ~150% onstage and offstage can kill as early as 70-80% for most characters. It has 2 stages. but quite considerable end lag, making whiffs incredibly dangerous.

The first stage is where Pac-man is most likely to have mistakes occur with the move besides the end. Not only is he vulnerable while doodling the line, until he hits the power pellet he is at the whims of his opponent. In a close range situation, one well placed jab followed by a shield will negate any power the move would have. If you plan on using it closer, try to loop away or up. While drawing you also can freely form the line, you can also do sharper angles while in the air. In my opinion is stronger to short hop then side-B unless you will miss the attempt to strike if you try. If you draw your line while onstage straight while standing, you will not go offstage and be trapped at the ledge. To avoid this, angle up slightly before the line ends so you go offstage or in a way that allows you to keep moving.

Once you let go or it goes the max distance, Pac-man follows the best path he can to the pellet. Things like slopes and walls influence how the line is formed, so you are going to flow with the stage normally. If the angle is somehow too sharp, you may collide with the stage and go into a tumble that cannot be cancelled or you will zig zag and still go on your way. I suggest avoiding too many odd angles into ledges for that reason. If you also draw in such a way where the line goes past a ledge, but pac-man would still collide, you will then go into a tumble that basically means your death if offstage. if you hit Your opponent in this first section before the power pellet, you will do 4-5 percent based on how many pellets you have eaten on your way to the big pellet.

Once Pac-man reaches the larger power pellet, the move goes into Form 2. He grows larger, gets Super Armor, and launches much much further. The attack does as little as 6%, or at full length 12% Damage. Its knock back increases according to length as well. So the longer you can make it safely, the more effective the move will be, however, it is also more likely to be avoided.

The move does combo into itself around ~20-30%, basically the lower the percent, the shorter you want Side B to be if used close ranged. It also maximizes its kill potential as it is a true combo that once the first hit is made, there is no escape. You want to try to aim it to get both hits out of your side B so you can link the weak but fast hit with the big but easily avoided kill move. If you are unable to do that, you still want to try to get them as close to before the big pellet as possible at further ranges. If done correctly both hits should connect one after another and hit very hard for a max of 17%. This maximizes the kill potential of the move.

So what applications does it have?

It can be used at a sharp loop to break the hydrant, as long as both hits connect, the Hydrant will launch.

It has obvious use as a recovery move, but even stronger use as a edge guard. You may bait an air dodge and lead it in such a way to catch them in end lag, or an attack that your super armor will eat and you get a KO.

It has some minor mind game interactions with trampoline and hydrant. If not punished, you can follow up the end lag with either attack.

You can immediately use it after a dash attack, like most of Pac-man's moveset.

You can follow melon with it. This is of questionable use because a dash grab, or other options chasing melon are much safer and more effective.

It is definitely the weakest move when it comes to variety of what you can do with it compared to his other specials. It is best used as a kill move, punish move, or combo finisher.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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Been looking to see the applications to this as this move keeps always being my Achilles Heel during matches. It's just so easy to telegraph and the fact that you can break the dot lines is a major boon to this move's usefulness.
 
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