Recovery options

[MomBomb]

I have the hardest time coming back from edge guards. the things i have found to work sometimes is a rising tranq from the edge and occasionally a C4 stick. are there any other more efficient ways to return from an edge guard

 

[JohnnyJoestar~JoJo]

I have kinda the same problem coming back from the ledge too. Other than what you posted, sometimes i'll drop off then cypher into an aerial back onto the stage. Other than that, the safest way I've seen from coming back is throwing a grenade to try and back them off from the edge or coming down from the top while holding a grenade or fast falling a d-air, but I feel you on this.

 

[ShadowShlong]

Yea when you're recovering from above the stage or from the side i always chuck a nade at them to either make them back off or go into shield so i can hopefully make it back. When i'm under the stage i feel like i'm just at their mercy and hope they mess up trying to dair me cause of the cypher.

 

[MomBomb]

ive also gone through the approach of C4ing myself or cyphering high so i can come from above. at that point I've noticed most characters attacks will explode a nade if its in your hand causing both people to explode allowing some time to stand on the ground but its at the cost of a lot of damage.

also trying to sweet spot the ledge by canceling cypher but the timing window is very difficult

 

[cisyphus]

I've been doing a lot of knockback spreadsheets lately, so I'm gonna unload a whole lot of that here right now. I use Final Destination as the basic guideline, just know that most stages are within 5% of its ceiling to bottom platform height, with Dreamland being around 20% higher, Dracula's Castle and Skyworld around 10% higher, and WarioWare and Yoshi's Story being about 10% lower.

You've got a lot of options for recovery, so be sure to mix them up effectively based on the situation at hand and patterns your opponent's displayed:

C4 Damage Boosting: Down-B, then Down B again to launch yourself. This is relatively quick (8 frames to drop it, 22 frames to detonate = 1/2 second) but WILL kill Snake on FD at 116% with no DI, around 130% with DI back, and around 120% with DI forward. This is probably gonna be your bread and butter for Cypher refreshes for low/mid percents, and it's also great for baiting out short range edgeguarding from the likes of Sheik. At high percents, though, it gets more and more likely that it'll just kill you anyway. There's also the problem of it dealing 17% fresh.

Grenade Damage Boosting: I feel like Rolex is the only Snake I see going for these, although he doesn't quite have the setup right nine times out of ten. The grenade explodes 98 frames (~1.8 seconds) after the input. At high percents, the grenade has great knockback for damage boosting, because it can't even KO Snake on FD until 196% with no DI. Use this to stall out a bit and get a second Cypher, but only when you DI into the corner, most other times, you'll just fall to your death. If you input the grenade while in the top blast zone and freefall, you'll be level with FD by the time it explodes, so use that as a gauge for when you can use this. You can get only a slight DI behind with this, so be wary of it. It deals out 12% fresh, so it's even more applicable for these situations.

Cypher: Is fantastic. Four frames of start up invincibility that shift to making Snake's whole body a hitbox, so it's awesome for going through quick aerials like Falco Dair or Sheik Fair. The cypher itself keeps a hitbox after you let go of it, making your getup a tad easier if you sweetspot with it (which you should if the chance arises) since its trajectory tends to catch ledge campers. It also rides ledges, so recovering from under FD makes your opponent work a lot harder to edgeguard you, especially if you can walltech their stagespike tries (which is relatively safe since shielding doesn't affect Cypher). As for sweetspotting: watch for the Cypher to just peek over the stage. That's the visual cue I use, and I rarely miss it. Fair out of Cypher is also really good, obviously: it's Snake's strongest horizontal knockback with hitboxes that cover Snake's entire height. It feels super safe.

Air Dodge: Know that you can't air dodge in your Cypher freefall, but you CAN after you cancel the Cypher with an attack. Your best options are C4 and Grenade, since they're way faster than any of Snake's aerials at 8 and 26 respectively. Check http://smashboards.com/threads/snake-hitboxes-and-frame-data.339444/ to see how big of a deal that is vs. the aerials.

Grenades are also great for covering your return, either by throwing them early to clear space, or holding them late as you're getting back on stage to punish punishes. Percentages in general are HUGE for Snake's recovery options, though. Know what you can and can't do based on that. Outside that it's all fundamentals: save your second jump and know when you can just airdodge onto stage.

 

[MomBomb]

thanks for all the info! i didn't know you can air dodge after a cipher cancel very interesting

 

[0mart]

Snake has many ways of recovering, I will try to order them depending on where you are ...

If you are high:

1. - You can throw down the Grenade ( pull the grenade and then hold Down while releasing the ´nade) : This will cover the place you could be landing as the grenade detonates before you land
2. - You can fall down with a B-reversal ( with the grenade in hand facing the blastzones) This will help you against large hitboxes hits, and if your opponent does not know how to space the grenade both of you will explode and as you will be sent flying, he too so... at least you are not going to be punished free... and if you get to land you can hold R to Shield and he can explode alone if he does it too late.
3. - You can always try to get as center of the stage as possible with the cypher(you can wavebounce when you are almost landing on the stage to make him guess). with this one, you will have a different mixup because your opponent can´t punish the 3 of them with the same option. So mix it up!

If you are around the level of the ledge of the stage(close):

1. - You can sweetspot the ledge slightly pressing down when your arms are at the level of the ledge.
2. - In case you want/need height, you can explode yourself with the C4( you probably going to need to do that against certain characters who can spike you easy like , Zelda, Marth etc. You can mix up between DIing Up or the ledge so you Wall Tech.

If you are around the level of the ledge of the stage(far):
I refer to ´´far´´ a distance where you can´t reach the stage nor the ledge with the Cypher alone.

1. - If you have your Mid-air jump you can pull the grenade and when you are tossing it up, cancel the animation with the jump and do a AGT (Air Glide Toss) up or towards the stage. This one is really sexy, covers a good amount of distance and the explosion covers a good space. Practice this!
2. - If you don´t have your Mid-Air jump, you can pull and toss up the grenade(just tap the B button and toss it upwards) and inmediately use the cypher. You will reach the explosion area with the cypher if you don´t do it late. You can save your 2nd jump if you haven´t use it and it won´t kill you relatively early like C4. Practice this!
3. C4 recovery after the Cypher . This one is pretty much self-explainatory.

Those are the recovery options that comes to my mind now, if I recall any other I will update this post. Hope anyone can find this helpful.

 

[Risky]

@ cisyphus "Cypher: Is fantastic. Four frames of start up invincibility that shift to making Snake's whole body a hitbox, so it's awesome for going through quick aerials like Falco Dair or Sheik Fair." Only grounded Cypher has iframes.

@ 0mart "You can save your 2nd jump if you haven´t use it " Snake loses his jump when you use Cypher, regardless.

 

[Sur Fartsalot]

So I decided to try snake as a secondary, and I was was trying out the recovery options. For the C4, it seems like I'm always late to blow my self upwards, I can't seem to do it fast enough. Is it something I just gain after muscle memory, I have really slow fingers (although I'm sure that's not the case), or because I'm just new? P.S. I can't do this with snake in SSBB either

 

[LupinX]

So I decided to try snake as a secondary, and I was was trying out the recovery options. For the C4, it seems like I'm always late to blow my self upwards, I can't seem to do it fast enough. Is it something I just gain after muscle memory, I have really slow fingers (although I'm sure that's not the case), or because I'm just new? P.S. I can't do this with snake in SSBB either

Perhaps you C4 after snake "leaves" his cypher. You need to do it within its recovery timeframe or else you fast fall to your death. During your up-b, drop the C4 and immediately press it again for a sure recovery. Remember, you can't C4 cyphers infinitely anymore (unlike 3.02) because it reduces distance as you keep up-b'ing, unless you touch the ground.

 

[Sur Fartsalot]

Oops, yeah. I drop the C4 after I leave the cypher, will try this! Thanks!

 

[cisyphus]

You don't even necessarily need to do it as you drop, that's just the best and easiest way to avoid the fastfall input.