Recovery Based Tier List

[FalconOwnage]

As you all know, Melee has a tier list based on competitive viability of characters, where Fox reigns supreme. The end.

Anyway, it would be interesting to have a tier list based on a different element of the game: recoveries. This tier list would rank characters based on how effective their recoveries are overall. When complete, it would be a useful tool for players to refer to when analyzing characters and their match-ups.

Note: this "Recovery Based Tier List" is a work in progress. This list will take a good amount of time to refine. Some analysis and discussion is in order. Any comments are appreciated.

Top:
1.
2.
High:
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
Mid:
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
Low:
18.
19.
20.
21.
22.
Bottom:
23.
24.
25.
26.

 

[EddyBearr]

Does it take floatiness and DI into consideration?

 

[AirFair]

I think that Jiggs is probably better because of the rising pound and 6 jumps. As a marth player I used Mewtwo's double jump and recovery to train my dair spike so I think at least the double jump can be punished pretty easily if they don't recover low enough.

 

[FalconOwnage]

Does it take floatiness and DI into consideration?

Yes, it assumes optimal player skill such as the best possible use of DI and floatiness.

 

[Pluid]

I would probably say Mewtwo, because his recovery is much harder to punish sometimes because it's a lot quicker, bar Jiggs' neutral B. I'm a Puff player and I have an easier time getting to stage with my bad Mewtwo.

 

[Pluid]

Okay I might be jumping the gun here but I really don't want this thread to die, because I love the concept. So here's my suggestion for breaking this down to 5 tiers, and maybe we can start from there. If you'd rather me not get this far ahead just let me know.

My Suggestions​

Top Tier (They WILL get back to the stage whether you like it or not, easy to use.)
Suggestions:
High Tier (Getting to the stage is not free, requires some skill on execution, but they will most likely get back to the stage.)
Suggestions:
Mid Tier (Pain in the ass to edgeguard, but getting to the stage isn't quite that easy.)
Suggestions:
Low Tier (Either very vulnerable when trying to recover but still has distance, or has a bad recovery move but with high priority)
Suggestions:
Bottom Tier (A back throw will probably lead to a death.)
Suggestions:

 

[FalconOwnage]

An analysis of the max vertical height of each character's recovery might be useful (Puff obviously has a greater horizontal recovery).

Does anyone want to test which character can reach the greatest vertical height?
or

 

[FalconOwnage]

Okay I might be jumping the gun here but I really don't want this thread to die, because I love the concept. So here's my suggestion for breaking this down to 5 tiers, and maybe we can start from there. If you'd rather me not get this far ahead just let me know.

My Suggestions​

Top Tier (They WILL get back to the stage whether you like it or not, easy to use.)
Suggestions:
High Tier (Getting to the stage is not free, requires some skill on execution, but they will most likely get back to the stage.)
Suggestions:
Mid Tier (Pain in the *** to edgeguard, but getting to the stage isn't quite that easy.)
Suggestions:
Low Tier (Either very vulnerable when trying to recover but still has distance, or has a bad recovery move but with high priority)
Suggestions:
Bottom Tier (A back throw will probably lead to a death.)
Suggestions:

This is a good starting point, and suggestions are certainly appreciated. However, there are many debatable positions. What we should do is go tier by tier. For example, we would have top tier be first and then take nominations/suggestions for characters along with suggested order (i.e. 1st, 2nd, 3rd).

Okay I might be jumping the gun here

Edit: It seems like Peach isn't on the same level as Mewtwo and Puff tho. Her float ability grants absolutely zero vertical distance. Additionally, her parasol up-b does not go that high either. This leaves her vulnerable to semi-spikes such as Sheik's fair. IMO, only 2 characters belong in the top tier. Peach would probably be near the top of the high tier though.

 

[Spak]

Okay I might be jumping the gun here but I really don't want this thread to die, because I love the concept. So here's my suggestion for breaking this down to 5 tiers, and maybe we can start from there. If you'd rather me not get this far ahead just let me know.

My Suggestions​

Top Tier (They WILL get back to the stage whether you like it or not, easy to use.)
Suggestions:
High Tier (Getting to the stage is not free, requires some skill on execution, but they will most likely get back to the stage.)
Suggestions:
Mid Tier (Pain in the *** to edgeguard, but getting to the stage isn't quite that easy.)
Suggestions:
Low Tier (Either very vulnerable when trying to recover but still has distance, or has a bad recovery move but with high priority)
Suggestions:
Bottom Tier (A back throw will probably lead to a death.)
Suggestions:

I kind of think Falco should be higher because although the vertical recovery isn't that great, his horizontal is pretty good. He can sweet-spot or shorten his Phantasm, his up-B can go any angle to mix-up recovery and cause them to have a bad read (if you are lucky), and he can shine-delay off-stage.

 

[Pluid]

This is a good starting point, and suggestions are certainly appreciated.

Would you wanna start by going tier by tier but without a specific order? Like we'll just call Puff and M2 top tier in no particular order, and then begin breaking down high tier and so on and so forth? Then when the tiers are sorted we could worry about order. Would that be a more efficient way? It's your call.
Also, I agree with what you said about Peach, and I think Puff and M2 should be top tier and Peach should maybe be high tier.

 

[FalconOwnage]

start by going tier by tier but without a specific order? Like we'll just call Puff and M2 top tier in no particular order

Yesz.

We need more people though (i.e. more opinions and character-specific knowledge)
If everyone that viewed this thread responded, that would be more than sufficient (considering the numbers of views this thread has)

So, if you are reading this, please list who you believe is high tier (in terms of recovery). Thank you based lurkers.

 

[EPsilon933]

Falco's recovery can KO edgeguarders. There's no way a character who can recover like that should be low tier

 

[Bench]

It depends if you're factoring in predictability. For example, while Fox cannot recovery from as far away as Samus, thanks to his angle options and multiple recovery tools he can contend with her. If you factor in ease of edgeguard, then Doc, Mario, and Luigi aren't that good. In this respect, Jiggs is better than Mewtwo. With Mewtwo, once the double jump is gone it's simple, Jiggs has multiple jumps, that along with Pound gives Jiggs the upper hand.

 

[Spak]

I'd say that "best recovery" recovery is situational based on the stage (Battlefield being hard to tether) and who you are going against (w/ their edgeguarding options), but overall, this is how I would rank people:

Spoiler

-------
LIST
-------

Top:

High:

Mid:

Low:

Horrid:

And-You-Thought-You-Could-Make-It-Back


------------------
REASONING
------------------

Top reasons:
: Peach is floaty, can float, and her up-B is her going upwards and then floating more.
: Rising pound, floaty character, multi-jumps.
: Big second jump, teleportation.


High reasons:
: Big teleport range, basically a much better version of Sheik's.
&: Quick attack has a really big range and Pikachu can sweetspot the ledge. The only reason why Pikachu isn't higher is you need to be above the ledge to sweetspot it.
: Tethering, Screwattack is decent, and the bombs are good. In addition, Samus is really floaty.


Mid reasons:
: Luigi Missile is good and his Up-B has a decent recovery. Misfires are also very fortunate.
: Just mediocre. Up-B is decent, not much else to say.
: Possible to punish and if they try to sweetspot the ledge, you can just use the Marth Killer.
: Fire Fox can sweetspot the ledge, while Illusion isn't as good as Phantasm.
: Look at reasons I posted above. Falco is probably last on mid, though.
: Strangely, their Side-B makes for a better recovery move than their Up-B. Side-B makes them go up and sideways, while hitboxes (mostly) surround them.
: Multiple jumps, floaty, but the Up-B is super punisable.
: Huge second jump, but no extra distance with Up-B. Also, Falcon's sweetspoted Knee cancels second jump.


Low reasons:
: Doesn't cover much distance.
: Falco can just spike any recovery attempt unless done perfectly. I haven't played many good Game&Watches, so I don't know if there is a way around this.
: Only reason he isn't lower is because of the Reverse-Up-B sweetspot. Can have up to two jumps if he Falcon Kicks, but he is already in a bad spot if he needs to do that.
: Like Falcon's.


Horrid reasons:
&: While they do have a teather, seeing any type of Link try to recover any vertical distance is just pitiful.
: Seriously, you could just jump into his recovery and he would die. Then, you could double jump and recover (with most non-Link, non-Bowser, and non-DK characters).


And-You-Thought-You-Could-Make-It-Back reasons:
&: Almost no vertical distance covered. If you get a couple character-heights below the stage, you might as well just accept your fate.
: Like Marth's, but really bad.

---------
NOTE
---------

This is just a list I threw together and is by no means correct. I don't know as much about the game (or individual characters) as a lot of other people, so you can make your own lists with your own opinions if you wish.

EDIT: Made the list a spoiler so that people can scroll easier with less clutter

 

[Spak]

Falco's recovery can KO edgeguarders. There's no way a character who can recover like that should be low tier

Unless they ledge-tech. The animation gives you plenty of time to react and Falcon is really easy edgeguareded by all of the high-tiers.

 

[Fyrelore]

I'm merely a noob so my observation is based off of a few years of casual play and a few days of competitive. I definitely agree on Peach being top tier, maybe even number one of all of them. That float is pretty obnoxious when you're just trying to get her to go away and die already. Float, up-B, float some more. So easy to recover.

 

[Bench]

Ganon does have a reverse. His down-b is also shorter which helps him recover safer than falco at most distances.I don't believe Pichu can sweet spot. (Yeah it's stupid)

 

[Spak]

Ganon does have a reverse. His down-b is also shorter which helps him recover safer than falco at most distances.I don't believe Pichu can sweet spot. (Yeah it's stupid)

OK, thanks for the info! I'll update the list with those details.

 

[1MachGO]

I've attempted recovery discussion like this in the past, and, to be quite honest, its pretty futile.

Recoveries themselves are extraordinarily situational. They are affected by MUs, positioning, stages, etc. and when the variables compound like that its an impossible issue to solve even with averaging.

 

[FalconOwnage]

They are affected by MUs, positioning, stages, etc. and when the variables compound like that its an impossible issue to solve even with averaging.

Sounds just like the current tier list. Doc's position on the list is affected by MUs, positioning, stages, etc. and when the variables compound like that it's not impossible to average them and make a tier list.

What I'm saying is, yes there are many variables, but the tier list is basically an average of those. For example, Fox might get chaingrabbed by DK on FD. Fox might lose. In a different matchup, Fox kills Mewtwo at 60% on Stadium with an upsmash. Fox wins this matchup. But overall, across all matchups, Fox performs the best, which is why he is ranked 1st. This list is based on the same principle as the original tier list.

Anyway, for top tier, the current character in question is
Peach

Do we have any Peach mains willing to speak for or against her being top tier? Could said person also speak about her level of vulnerability to semi-spikes?

(Obviously, I am not a Peach main and I very rarely play as her)

 

[FalconOwnage]

Also, check da fridge the OP for a preliminary list, complete with individual rankings. This list is subject to (much) change.

 

[Pluid]

Top Tier is pretty much concrete.So let's focus on High Tier.
As for High Tier, I don't question anyone but Fox and Zelda's placement

 

[FalconOwnage]

As for High Tier, I don't question anyone but Fox and Zelda's placement

Zelda should probably be high tier because of the great distance covered by her up-b. Also, there is the fact that she disappears and that she is floaty. Fox's Firefox actually goes surprisingly far and can be angled in many different trajectories. Firefox might even go as far as Zelda's up-b. Someone should test that. Firefox also damages enemies upon start-up, unlike Firebird. Fox Illusion is extremely fast and goes very far horizontally. A skilled player can side-b edge cancel onto a platform for a quick recovery. Additionally, a skilled player can shorten Illusion to fake out enemies. Since we are assuming optimal player skill, it seems reasonable to believe Fox is high tier. Lastly, Fox can shine stall to slow his decent at critical times. Fox has too many options to be considered mid tier, IMO.

 

[Pluid]

Just tested Fox and Zelda's recovery distances.
I rolled to the edge of FD and up-B'd to the center to see how far they got.
Results:

Spoiler

Seems about the same.

 

[EddyBearr]

Top: (They -will- recover)
1. Mewtwo (better landing, less floating)
1. Jiggs (better floating/stalling, worse landing)
3. Samus (grapple, somewhat exploitable)
3. Peach (slightly fewer options, harder to exploit)
High: (great recoveries)
5. Pikachu (Fast, variable, long)
6. Pichu (Slightly worse than Pikachu but same nature)
7. Ice Climbers (amazing with 2, decent with 1, hitboxes)
8. Luigi (can stall forever to get to ledge)
Mid: (Edgeguarding takes definite effort or a good recovery)
9. Fox (long, great mix-ups)
10. Zelda (very long, can avoid lag)
11. Young Link (assumes v.1.00/1.01, many options, difficult to edgeguard)
12. Kirby (rising fair)
13. Yoshi (invincible)
14. Game & Watch (great horizontal & vertical but exploitable and linear)
15. Falco (lacking in range but great mix-ups and risky to edgeguard)
16. Ganondorf (he can keep trying forever with good DI)
Low: (They might recover, but it's short or easy to edgeguard)
17. Mario (slightly longer than doc, but worse sweet-spot)
17. Doc (great sweet-spot, but slightly worse than Mario)
19. Link (variable but slow,no wall jump with grapple)
20. Sheik (Variable but punishable/slow)
21. Marth (very linear, just knock Marth off.)
22. Falcon (Just hit him off over and over)
23. DK (decent recovery with good DI but very exploitable)
Bottom: (They shouldn't be allowed to recover)
24. Roy (some variablity and speed w/ hitboxes but just awful)
25. Ness (slightly better but more exploitable)
25. Bowser (slightly worse but less exploitable)

 

[FalconOwnage]

Just tested Fox and Zelda's recovery distances.
I rolled to the edge of FD and up-B'd to the center to see how far they got.
Results:

Spoiler

Seems about the same.

Overall, Fox probably has the better recovery then. He has more options and different ways to recover, while Zelda only has 1 option that can only be varied in direction, not distance (where as Fox Illusion can have variable distance).

 

[Pluid]

Overall, Fox probably has the better recovery then.

You have to also take into account Zelda's floatiness. I went through a bit of a Zelda phase once and I found that a lot of people had a difficult time edgeguarding me. Also, Zelda has a really far air dodge for some reason that sends her hella far, Zelda mains use that to mix up recovery. Just some Zelda insight.
This one's a really close call, but I can agree with putting them both in the lower end of High Tier or the top of Mid Tier.

 

[Haras]

I really like this list. People are always using a competitive tier list, but this is the first recovery-based tier list I've ever seen.

 

[1MachGO]

Sounds just like the current tier list. Doc's position on the list is affected by MUs, positioning, stages, etc. and when the variables compound like that it's not impossible to average them and make a tier list.

What I'm saying is, yes there are many variables, but the tier list is basically an average of those. For example, Fox might get chaingrabbed by DK on FD. Fox might lose. In a different matchup, Fox kills Mewtwo at 60% on Stadium with an upsmash. Fox wins this matchup. But overall, across all matchups, Fox performs the best, which is why he is ranked 1st. This list is based on the same principle as the original tier list.

Well, first of all, the tier list is actually determined by voting. The merits of that method is a debate in and of itself.

Furthermore, creating a regular tier list is more feasible because its gauging things in a more general manner (I'll explain what I mean by this in a bit). At its simplest form, a tier list is essentially looking at the best MU spreads in the context of the current meta (i.e. how popularity affects of the viability of certain MU spreads)

And even then, there is little consensus about most MUs since the average player only knows about the inter-meta of 7 to 8 characters. The tier list is basically a list of diminishing knowledge as much as it is about ranking viability.

Now the reason why a recovery tier list becomes a convoluted comparison is because you're trying to analyze a single component of the game which is best understood in its original context. In other words, you could probably say that character x has the worst recovery in the game due to their lack of distance/options, but is that information really useful because its in a vacuum?

For instance, is it fair to say that Fox's recovery is better than Falco's? You could make the argument that Fox has a better long ranged recovery, but Falco has a better short ranged one. This doesn't clearly state which one is "better" so the solution might be to state which one is better "on average". The moment you start averaging is the moment you lose information. Saying Fox's recovery is better "on average" doesn't do justice to Falco who may have the stronger recovery in the short range.

The moment you pretend that recoveries aren't heavily affected by countless other factors in the game is the moment your tier list loses meaning.

Something more productive would be a "recovery assessment list" where you assess options on their own terms without forcing a comparison.

 

[Spak]

Well, first of all, the tier list is actually determined by voting. The merits of that method is a debate in and of itself.

Furthermore, creating a regular tier list is more feasible because its gauging things in a more general manner (I'll explain what I mean by this in a bit). At its simplest form, a tier list is essentially looking at the best MU spreads in the context of the current meta (i.e. how popularity affects of the viability of certain MU spreads)

And even then, there is little consensus about most MUs since the average player only knows about the inter-meta of 7 to 8 characters. The tier list is basically a list of diminishing knowledge as much as it is about ranking viability.

Now the reason why a recovery tier list becomes a convoluted comparison is because you're trying to analyze a single component of the game which is best understood in its original context. In other words, you could probably say that character x has the worst recovery in the game due to their lack of distance/options, but is that information really useful because its in a vacuum?

For instance, is it fair to say that Fox's recovery is better than Falco's? You could make the argument that Fox has a better long ranged recovery, but Falco has a better short ranged one. This doesn't clearly state which one is "better" so the solution might be to state which one is better "on average". The moment you start averaging is the moment you lose information. Saying Fox's recovery is better "on average" doesn't do justice to Falco who may have the stronger recovery in the short range.

The moment you pretend that recoveries aren't heavily affected by countless other factors in the game is the moment your tier list loses meaning.

Something more productive would be a "recovery assessment list" where you assess options on their own terms without forcing a comparison.

Another option would be having 25 tier lists (one for each character, like a matchup chart).

 

[Massive]

This has come up before.
It should come as no surprise to anyone that nobody can agree on the order past the top few, just like the regular tier list.

Objectively judging recovery distance is very easy, objectively judging and then ranking recoveries as a whole is very hard when you get past the obvious outliers.

 

[Crawfiish]

I agree with most of what people are saying, except

has a decent recovery. If he tries to use it near the edge yeah you can run into the thunder, but it covers a very good amount of distance and you pretty much can't hit him during the middle of his recovery

 

[K-9]

So I'm about to make a huge post but I want to make a spoiler so it doesn't show up so huge on everyone's screen, can someone tell me how to do that?

 

[1MachGO]

So I'm about to make a huge post but I want to make a spoiler so it doesn't show up so huge on everyone's screen, can someone tell me how to do that?

Spoiler

Precede text with spoiler and end with /spoiler; both in square brackets.

You can quote me if you still don't understand the format

 

[K-9]

Spoiler

Precede text with spoiler and end with /spoiler; both in square brackets.

You can quote me if you still don't understand the format

Awesome. I'll try it out.

Spoiler

Thank you.

 

[HdTyvek]

shouldnt luigi be a little higher? with the missle/charged tornado/up b its a pretty good way to get back to the stage

 

[K-9]

So I wanted to make my own tier list but had a lot of trouble deciding once I got to some of the mid-tiers and I really wanted a more concrete way of deciding whose recovery is better. So I came up with six criteria from which to judge each character upon (they are listed and described below). Each character is rated on a scale of 1-6 (an arbitrary number, 6 criteria and a scale of 6 seemed to work nicely). The final tier list is posted below the spoiler with averages.

My "credentials" include being a pretty good puff player. My tag is Ace of Flakes and I've taken games off of many of the PR players within my region (MD/VA), and come very close to beating them. I've played the game for about a year competitively. I understand this list is objective and not perfect but I'm pretty happy with it. Also keep in mind this list is made with my personal experience of edge guarding these characters with Fox and Puff, which is obviously a bit biased.

Spoiler

Criteria:

1: Varying options for recovering aka ability to “mix up” recovery in direction, angles, and height

2: Ability to recover after being hit: repetitive factor within recovery

3: Maximum Horizontal recovery:

4: Maximum Vertical recovery:

5: Ability to “interfere” with edge guarding attempts by throwing out attacks or dodging by jumping, moving out of the way, or abusing moments of invincibility or through the actual hit-boxes of the recovery move itself (the up-b hit box/priority)

6: The ease with which when successfully making it upon the stage (not the ledge) they can be punish with a kill or placed back within an edge guarding situation


Criteria abbreviations:

Options, Persistence, Horizontal, Vertical, Interference, Punishment

The tier list with the six criteria rated beneath each character.

Spoiler

Recovery Tier List:

Tier 1:

Jigglypuff- 7

Options: 1

Persistence: 1

Horizontal: 1

Vertical: 2

Interference: 1

Punishment: 1


Samus- 8

Options: 1

Persistence: 1

Horizontal: 1

Vertical: 1

Interference: 2

Punishment: 2


Peach- 9

Options: 2

Persistence: 1

Horizontal: 1

Vertical: 2

Interference: 2

Punishment: 1


Mewtwo 9

Options: 2

Persistence: 2-3

Horizontal: 1

Vertical: 1

Interference: 1.5

Punishment:1


Pikachu- 9

Options: 1

Persistence: 1

Horizontal: 1

Vertical: 1

Interference: 2

Punishment: 3


Fox- 13

Options: 1

Persistence: 2-3

Horizontal: 2

Vertical: 1

Interference: 3-4

Punishment: 3


Pichu- 13

Options: 1

Persistence: 2

Horizontal: 2

Vertical: 2

Interference: 3

Punishment: 3


Young Link- 15.5

Options: 2

Persistence: 4

Horizontal: 2

Vertical: 3

Interference: 2

Punishment: 2-3


Ice Climbers- 16 but difficult to place as it involves edge guarding of Nana and Sopa and adds variables to placement not experienced by any other character)

Options: 3 (Keeping in mind ability to land in various places)

Persistence: 3

Horizontal: 2

Vertical: 3

Interference: 2

Punishment: 3


Luigi- 16.5

Options: 3

Persistence: 3

Horizontal: 1

Vertical: 3

Interference: 2

Punishment: 4-5


Yoshi- 17

Options: 4

Persistence: 2 (Including super armor)

Horizontal: 3

Vertical: 4

Interference: 2 (Including super armor)

Punishment: 2


Game and Watch- 17.5

Options: 4.5

Persistence: 3

Horizontal: 3

Vertical: 1

Interference: 2.5

Punishment: 3.5


Sheik- 18.5

Options: 2.5

Persistence: 4

Horizontal: 2.5

Vertical: 2.5

Interference: 2

Punishment: 5


Zelda- 18

Options: 3

Persistence: 3

Horizontal: 2

Vertical: 2

Interference: 4

Punishment: 4


Kirby- 18

Options: 2

Persistence: 3

Horizontal: 3

Vertical: 3

Interference: 4 (Very easy to hit during recovery despite aerials between jumps)

Punishment: 3


Ganon- 19

Options: 5

Persistence: 2

Horizontal: 2

Vertical: 3

Interference: 3

Punishment: 4



Dr. Mario- 19.5

Options: 4

Persistence: 4

Horizontal: 2.5

Vertical: 3.5

Interference: 2.5

Punishment: 3


Marth: 20

Options: 3

Persistence: 4.5

Horizontal: 2.5

Vertical: 2.5

Interference: 2.5

Punishment: 5


Link- 20.5

Options: 2.5

Persistence: 3.5

Horizontal: 3.5

Vertical: 4.5

Interference: 2.5

Punishment: 4


Falcon- 21

Options: 5

Persistence: 2

Horizontal: 2.5

Vertical: 3.5

Interference: 3.5

Punishment: 4.5


Falco: 23

Options: 2

Persistence: 6

Horizontal: 4

Vertical: 4

Interference: 5

Punishment: 2


Mario: 24.5

Options: 4.5

Persistence: 5

Horizontal: 3.5

Vertical: 3.5

Interference: 3.5

Punishment: 4.5


Bottom Tier:

Donkey Kong 27.5

Options: 5.5

Persistence: 3.5

Horizontal: 3.5

Vertical: 6

Interference: 4

Punishment: 4


Bowser 28.5

Options: 6

Persistence: 4

Horizontal: 3.5

Vertical:6

Interference: 4

Punishment: 5


Ness: 30

Options: 5

Persistence: 6

Horizontal: 4

Vertical: 5

Interference: 5

Punishment: 5


Roy 30

Options: 4

Persistence: 6

Horizontal: 5

Vertical: 4.5

Interference: 4.5

Punishment: 6

List with only averages:

Spoiler

Tier 1:

1. Jigglypuff: Avg: 1.17

2. Samus: Avg: 1.33

3. Peach: Avg: 1.5

4. Mewtwo: Avg: 1.5

5. Pikachu: Avg: 1.5

Tier 2:

6. Fox: Avg: 2.17

7. Pichu: Avg: 2.17

8. Young Link Avg: 2.58

9. Ice Climbers: Avg: 2.67

10.Luigi: Avg: 2.75

11.Yoshi: Avg: 2.83

12.Game and Watch: Avg: 2.91

Tier 3:

13.Sheik: Avg: 3

14.Zelda: Avg: 3

15.Kirby: Avg: 3

16.Ganon: Avg: 3.17

17.Dr. Mario: Avg: 3.25

18.Marth: Avg: 3.33

19.Link: Avg: 3.42

Tier 4:

20.Falcon: Avg: 3.5

21.Falco: Avg: 3.83

22.Mario: Avg: 4.08

Tier 5:

23.Donkey Kong: Avg: 4.58

24.Bowser: Avg: 4.75

25.Ness: Avg: 5

26.Roy: Avg: 5

 

[gmBottles]

No Effort Tier

Actually Have to Try Tier

Garbage Tier

 

[XLAX_OVERDOSAGE]

IMO Ness has better recovery than DK, Bowser, Dr, Mario, and to some extent, yoshi.

That is, if you don't suck at using his upB.

Here's my take on the list:

Ultimate


High


Medium-High (Great recoveries, but easily hindered)


Medium


Low


No hope

 

[Jockmaster]

No Effort Tier

Actually Have to Try Tier

Garbage Tier

Discussion pretty much ends here ladies and gentleman, except Peach for sure belongs in ez mode tier