Smash Wii U Reading vs execution

[Samlage]

I have more and more begun to think that execution will almost always be in favor over mindgames. People with faster reaction times and perfect control over their characters framecanceling will always have the upper hand over people that can think 3 steps ahead because the punishment-window in this game is too damn low without framecanceling or near 1-2 frame reactions.

I have put in around 300 hours into this game and i still do lots of input errors every game. Accidental dash attacks when i intend to ftilt. Accidentally pivot when i need a fast grab and so on. And stopping to think out a strategy for a split second seems like the worst taboo in the world. Should i have learned not to make these mistakes by now? Or how long is it estimated to take before mind, hand and controller is united as one?

 

[Sonicninja115]

Sm4sh isn't advanced enough to be a mainly reaction based game. Melee has a very diverse meta. It consists of reading, reaction, tech skill and combo ability.

Sm4sh at this time only consists of Reading and combo ability. Until the meta advances enough, Sm4sh will rely on this. It will eventually become very advanced, maybe even more advanced then Melee.

 

[Ryusuta]

Hard reads do play a decent part in the game, but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule. It's why people are so excited about KOs off of reads a lot of the time.

 

[Samlage]

I guess i am the only one who would like a slower version of smash where every character is like bowser or ganon and no advanced bug exploiting techs. A game where the technical aspect is mastered after 100 hours or so, but has read depth like chess.

To avoid the game becoming too defensive, a new mechanic like shoving the opponent off balance when shielding could be implemented? And maybe have feint versions of every move or atleast some, in order to bait people into traps.

 

[Foxus]

This is probably what makes Smash a heavily difficult game to learn. Reading (aka conditioning) your opponent is the name of the game. Smash is basically a game of mind reading. Precision is just as important, as inaccuracy can be fatal (if you're like me, and you can't get your aim right on a Smash ball for the life of you. then you know how it feels).

If you can't get into your opponents head at the beginning of a match, you'll be put at a severe disadvantage from the get-go for the rest of the match. It becomes a game of trial and error, as you try to survive. If you can't mind-read, its sad to say Smash might not be right for you, because the ability to mind read is literally a prerequisite to this game.

 

[IndigoSSB]

It's generally agreed that Melee relies on reactions and Smash 4 relies more on reads and punishes. That's putting it in a very broad way, but it's pretty accurate.

 

[Samlage]

This is probably what makes Smash a heavily difficult game to learn. Reading (aka conditioning) your opponent is the name of the game. Smash is basically a game of mind reading. Precision is just as important, as inaccuracy can be fatal (if you're like me, and you can't get your aim right on a Smash ball for the life of you. then you know how it feels).

If you can't get into your opponents head at the beginning of a match, you'll be put at a severe disadvantage from the get-go for the rest of the match. It becomes a game of trial and error, as you try to survive. If you can't mind-read, its sad to say Smash might not be right for you, because the ability to mind read is literally a prerequisite to this game.

I'm not really sure if you are talking about people in general or speaking directly to me with that post. The read game is the reason i like fighting games and keeps me coming back, and something I am better than average at.

What doesnt really appeal to me is the execution barrier that the genre as a whole features.

Atleast in my bunch of players of 10 people, the 2 that have the best accuracy and reaction times are the ones that come out on top most evenings. when a game deciding hit takes me out, i ask the other guy something like " did you know i aimed for that?" or " was that a trap?".
The response i usually get is E.g. "huh? what are you talking about?" " idk i just go along with the flow" or " i dont read i just fight" or some other dumbfounding bollox.

 

[Samlage]

It's generally agreed that Melee relies on reactions and Smash 4 relies more on reads and punishes. That's putting it in a very broad way, but it's pretty accurate.

so i've heard. but just because it plays a smaller part doesnt mean its completely absent in the latest iteration. and the room for punishment is still really small when people roll all over the place, context or not. more often that not when facing something like a fox who dashes and rolls excessively and sporadically in the neutral game, being reactive and precise with your moves is more important than scheming or plotting plans. Even moreso in Omega destination-stages.

Sometimes, against certain opponents, with cetrain matchups you do not have time to think.

 

[IndigoSSB]

so i've heard. but just because it plays a smaller part doesnt mean its completely absent in the latest iteration. and the room for punishment is still really small when people roll all over the place, context or not. more often that not when facing something like a fox who dashes and rolls excessively and sporadically in the neutral game, being reactive and precise with your moves is more important than scheming or plotting plans. Even moreso in Omega destination-stages.

Sometimes, against certain opponents, with cetrain matchups you do not have time to think.

There's no right answer here because I think you're misinterpreting what reading or prediction is. Reading somebody is not just thinking of ideas or "scheming" before something happens, that's called strategy. Reading is all based on finding your opponent's habits and capitalizing on them. Is the opponent is rolling too much? Punish him or her for every predictable roll and either force him to change strategies or pay the consequences.

Punishes and reads take reaction time too you know. That's why there's no right or wrong here, Reading and Execution are two sides of the same coin.

 

[Samlage]

There's no right answer here because I think you're misinterpreting what reading or prediction is. Reading somebody is not just thinking of ideas or "scheming" before something happens, that's called strategy. Reading is all based on finding your opponent's habits and capitalizing on them. Is the opponent is rolling too much? Punish him or her for every predictable roll and either force him to change strategies or pay the consequences.

Punishes and reads take reaction time too you know. That's why there's no right or wrong here, Reading and Execution are two sides of the same coin.

Yes and no. but conceiving a thought and thereafter putting it into action is not made within a 1-5 frame window. stuff that happens in that timespan is something that is done by muscle memory or instinct, not reading. it is those moments i am refering to when i say react and being precise instead of reading.

Many times i know exactly why something is coming and i have learned my opponents patterns, yet i find it difficult to do anything about it since my precision/execution is lacking many times. Often it becomes just sorta a " negate effect" and we end up within each others range, and the one that just thinks " ATTACK!!" instead of trying to adress the situation will come out on top since he just instinctively starts hammering buttons immediately.

Sure Brawl had its issues with tripping, chain grabs and so forth. But it had a better balance between being reactive/instinctive and heavily read based as in " think once or twice before you commit"(ofc up to a certain skill level). Atleast in my opinion. And i know that is not a very widespread opinion, certainly not here. For me, fighting games are not about the action, but just manipulating your opponent on a very deep plane.

 

[Samlage]

I thought about it for a second tho, and i figured you mean in combo-situations like "where will he DI"? If so i totally buy your argument of 2 sides of the same coin.

I am talking more about the CQC-neutral game just so you know. I apologize for not being specific.

 

[Foxus]

I'm not really sure if you are talking about people in general or speaking directly to me with that post. The read game is the reason i like fighting games and keeps me coming back, and something I am better than average at.

What doesnt really appeal to me is the execution barrier that the genre as a whole features.

Atleast in my bunch of players of 10 people, the 2 that have the best accuracy and reaction times are the ones that come out on top most evenings. when a game deciding hit takes me out, i ask the other guy something like " did you know i aimed for that?" or " was that a trap?".
The response i usually get is E.g. "huh? what are you talking about?" " idk i just go along with the flow" or " i dont read i just fight" or some other dumbfounding bollox.

I wasn't making the post with only you in mind, I was kinda mixing in the question at hand and the game in general, sorry I didn't make myself more clear.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

reads are the focal point in every competitive game, execution helps you receive the reward.