RAR Thunder - Is it possible?

[Jed1]

I've been lurking on this thread for a while now and have seen conflicting answers on whether or not the RAR Thunder tech discovered by esam is a guaranteed kill or not. In one thread I saw some pretty convincing frame math that seemed to disprove RAR thunder as a consistent kill option (will try to find a link later).

I am a pikachu main trying to get better and need to know 1. If RAR thunder is a kill confirm and 2. on what percents does it work on most character, ex fast fallers, floaties etc.

What I am wondering is that if it is impossible like some people on this forum claim then why can esam consistently get in in tournament? Even before he switched to bidou he could get it 85% of the time.

Just trying to create discussion/get an answer, if anyone could try and help me solve this problem it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[DeaDea]

So that post that "disproved" that its kill confirm, if I remember correctly, only confirmed that its only true IF you have something like 80% rage.

That is off pure memory though so might be wrong.

If they can airdodge straight out of it then you can just mix it up and delay the thunder a bit. Also if you ever notice they DI behind Pikachu you can downthrow so they go straight up above you which is a true combo.

 

[Jed1]

Thanks for answering, and also I had no idea about the down throw mix-up off DI, that will definitely help.

I've just been struggling with this tech for quite a while, it's a relief to hear that it is in fact confirmed as I though.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

Thanks for answering, and also I had no idea about the down throw mix-up off DI, that will definitely help.

I've just been struggling with this tech for quite a while, it's a relief to hear that it is in fact confirmed as I though.

You can actually cox them to DI behind pikachu by doing down throw near and facing the ledge. People have such an aversion to going off stage that most DI towards stage and boom thunder.

 

[A10theHero]

So that post that "disproved" that its kill confirm, if I remember correctly, only confirmed that its only true IF you have something like 80% rage.

This isn't true. It can work regardless of DI with or without rage. However, a sticking point is that you have to correctly read their DI. There is a percent range for every character where they are at the height and can be hit by the Turnaround or RAR Thunder. However, whether or not you can land the combo at a given percent in that range depends on whether you can input the combo fast enough.
For example, if at 130%, after the Up Throw, Bayonetta takes 30 frames to air dodge, this is technically sufficient time for the Pikachu main to execute the rest of the combo. However, depending on the player (reaction time, speed with inputs, etc.), it may or may not actually be enough time. So it varies.
Another issue that opponents can DI the spike from the Thunder Cloud and choose which direction the Thunder Burst / Blue Thunder sends them. That just means you shouldn't expect to get a kill during the early portion of the combo's percent range against a knowledgeable opponent. (Since it's a horizontally killing combo, stage positioning is of course important in determining when a stock is sealed.)

If they can airdodge straight out of it then you can just mix it up and delay the thunder a bit. Also if you ever notice they DI behind Pikachu you can downthrow so they go straight up above you which is a true combo.

As an AD read, you can also DJ to just hit them directly with the Blue Thunder / Thunder Burst.

 

[L from Switzerland]

You can actually cox them to DI behind pikachu by doing down throw near and facing the ledge. People have such an aversion to going off stage that most DI towards stage and boom thunder.

Well... provided the other player doesn't know what he's doing. There's really no reason to DI in, since pika cant kill at all with f-throw. I know that's not your point but i'm just saying. This setup only really works against players who don't think about why they do what.