Questions for a new-ish Marth in an upcoming tourney?

[Thejurok]

Hey all, I just had some general questions as Marth that came about when I was playing. I've only started "competitively" a few days, although I've goofed around with advanced tech for a while:

1. What are some good options against an opponent on the top platform of battlefield/fountain/yoshi's (after you up throw them there)? Typically I shffl an up air, although I've also seen double jump, then waveland directly onto the platform for a possible grab set-up. Any other options that are good?

2. How do you beat grapple recoveries? I played against a Link a few days ago, and I for the life of me could not figure out how to edgeguard him. Any tips?

3. Is there like a guide on chain grabs for Marth? I've seen scattered info everywhere about percentages and characters, but it never sounds tested. Is there like a complete comprehensive guide on which characters can be CG'd, at what exact percentages, when you can up throw to up tilt regrab, etc.

4. What are the differences between back throw and down throw? Is there one I should use more, because they seem almost identical.

5. How do you do retreating double fairs moving left? I can do it moving right, because I can hop with y, then push the base of my thumb to hit the c-stick, but moving left I have to actually move my hand, and it seems like it could never be quick enough. Help?

Some unrelated Marth questions:

6. When you wavedash off a platform, why do certain times leave you in the tumbling state (where you fall when you hit the ground), while others leave you falling normally?

7. Why do people give up invincibility on the recovery platforms? I've seen two people die around the same time, they respawn, and then immediately leave the platform. Shouldn't you wait so that you can be invincible and your opponent is not?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Twinkles]

1. Single full-hop under the top platform, react to every tech option with a dj -> uair.

2. As soon as his grapple hits the stage, grab ledge, stay on ledge. Punish him when he jumps off his grapple over you, because he cannot immediately act out of the grapple jump. If you are feeling impatient, you can dj -> throw out a fair to try to catch while rising and smack him into the wall.

3. There should be a guide somewhere. Fox/Falco are the only chars you can truly uthrow cg in the game IIRC, and the general formula is normal cg until 20-30% range, then you have to pivot grab them when they neutral DI (fly straight up) or they can shine you out of the grab. After 30%, uthrow leads into utilt. My percents are nebulous though, but there is definitely a better guide out there.

4. You haven't played enough Marth if you can't tell the difference haha (try using them on a level 1 Fox near the ledge). Bthrow has less knockback and sends enemies at a higher angle behind you than dthrow. Dthrow sends enemies both farther and at a lower angle behind you, so if you ever see Mew2king trying to gimp a spacie, watch him go for dthrow near the ledge.

5. Different answers for different people. Used to have this problem, now I got it pretty consistently I think, all from practice.

6. I have no freakin' idea, even though I'm pretty sure I've been told why before lol. I think it's if you fall off a platform backwards where you would normally teeter by the ledge, aka stopping so close to the ledge that you barely fall off.

7. I'm not sure why it's not seen more often, but I do think in general people who don't abuse waiting for invincibility in that situation are more apt to try to keep their hands moving. Lots of players I know, myself included, don't like letting their hands stop for even a second, so waiting to abuse invincibility is just too slow. Depending on how a person is, it may even be beneficial to do so, just so they keep their hands warm if they want to make some really dramatic technical plays later in the game.

 

[Thejurok]

1. Single full-hop under the top platform, react to every tech option with a dj -> uair.

2. As soon as his grapple hits the stage, grab ledge, stay on ledge. Punish him when he jumps off his grapple over you, because he cannot immediately act out of the grapple jump. If you are feeling impatient, you can dj -> throw out a fair to try to catch while rising and smack him into the wall.

3. There should be a guide somewhere. Fox/Falco are the only chars you can truly uthrow cg in the game IIRC, and the general formula is normal cg until 20-30% range, then you have to pivot grab them when they neutral DI (fly straight up) or they can shine you out of the grab. After 30%, uthrow leads into utilt. My percents are nebulous though, but there is definitely a better guide out there.

4. You haven't played enough Marth if you can't tell the difference haha (try using them on a level 1 Fox near the ledge). Bthrow has less knockback and sends enemies at a higher angle behind you than dthrow. Dthrow sends enemies both farther and at a lower angle behind you, so if you ever see Mew2king trying to gimp a spacie, watch him go for dthrow near the ledge.

5. Different answers for different people. Used to have this problem, now I got it pretty consistently I think, all from practice.

6. I have no freakin' idea, even though I'm pretty sure I've been told why before lol. I think it's if you fall off a platform backwards where you would normally teeter by the ledge, aka stopping so close to the ledge that you barely fall off.

7. I'm not sure why it's not seen more often, but I do think in general people who don't abuse waiting for invincibility in that situation are more apt to try to keep their hands moving. Lots of players I know, myself included, don't like letting their hands stop for even a second, so waiting to abuse invincibility is just too slow. Depending on how a person is, it may even be beneficial to do so, just so they keep their hands warm if they want to make some really dramatic technical plays later in the game.

Fantastic, thanks for the responses.

 

[aqualad33]

for 6. it's because your holding shield for too long. if you are wavedashing backwards off a ledge and your still holding shield then you will enter tumble animation but if you let go in time you will just drop normally. It does not take too much practice to get it.

 

[Thejurok]

for 6. it's because your holding shield for too long. if you are wavedashing backwards off a ledge and your still holding shield then you will enter tumble animation but if you let go in time you will just drop normally. It does not take too much practice to get it.

Good to know, thanks.