Questions about beating ROB

[Ghetto Blush]

Is it possible to shield grab ROB after he side-b -> ffl fairs my shield? It seems like anytime I try to do something out of shield I get d-tilt/d-smash'd before I can do something. It's getting to the point where when I play Fox the only thing I feel safe doing is shine OOS. Surely this isn't the case?

 

[Dandizzle]

It's possible for him to jab one frame before you grab but that had to be spaced and frame perfect. Usually you can just tank his jabs anyway but watch out if he does a grab right away or in between the two jabs. Dsmash and Dtilt have a lot of ending lag so they aren't safe on shield if he gets it off. In general don't get chain grabbed don't get gimped and apply enough shield pressure to stab him which is pretty easy to do.

 

[Ghetto Blush]

So essentially I can't punish the fair on shield?

 

[Dandizzle]

Well it'll be pretty rare he can space and time the jabs and they don't do much to shield anyway. Dsmash and Dtilt shouldn't be safe after fair either because they come out 2 frames later than jab, so you have a window to grab him guaranteed. A option quicker than grab would punish fair jab easily and fair dsmash even easier even though you should be able to grab fair dsmash. Also if you are getting dsmashed a lot you can smash Di out at a lot of percents. Sorry I can't be more precise I just woke up around an hour ago and I'm on mobile.

 

[Ghetto Blush]

Well it'll be pretty rare he can space and time the jabs and they don't do much to shield anyway. Dsmash and Dtilt shouldn't be safe after fair either because they come out 2 frames later than jab, so you have a window to grab him guaranteed. A option quicker than grab would punish fair jab easily and fair dsmash even easier even though you should be able to grab fair dsmash. Also if you are getting dsmashed a lot you can smash Di out at a lot of percents. Sorry I can't be more precise I just woke up around an hour ago and I'm on mobile.

Thanks, that's pretty helpful. I assume you SDI up?

 

[Dandizzle]

Up and away generally but depends on where you are in the move and Weight, fall speed etc.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Actually fox is the only character for whom you can't get out consisntently with just ASDI up or even an SDI input up. You're more likely to just get bad DI on the launcher hit for your troubles. Even if you don't try to smash DI out and instead DI away for the laucher, it's still a tech chase set-up, with ROB being able to cover 3/4 options with another dsmash. This is part of the reason I feel ROB actually goes 6:4 against fox.
A perfect shine OoS will hit frame 4 as fox after shield stun, which is also the same frame ROB can act after a boost->fair on shield, meaning it would probably hit them. however, a perfect shine OoS is a ground shine OoS, very difficult to pull off consistently, and if you miss it you will also not hit ROB if he dashes away or glide tosses away after the boost fair, and you commit yourself to a double jump which ROB can punish even if he dashes away with a boost->uair.
I would recommend actually trying to CC the boost fair at low percents. It'll lead into a shine which can lead into waveshine combos which are super easy on ROB, and you can put him at a low angle offstage with it which is where his recovery isn't very good because he doesn't have a good ledge sweetspot with his up-b, enabling you to shine gimp him. At mid to high percents you won't be able to CC boost fair, so you'll either be forced to DD around it's range, trying to bait it out for a punish, or try to out prioritize it with nairs. Alternatively if he jumps too high try to get underneath him where he can't threaten you with a boost.

EDIT: also no dandizzle, optimal ASDI/SDI for dsmash is straight up.

 

[Dandizzle]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm just happy I remembered the frame data right even though I couldn't check and I was all sleepy. Shamless plug to the matchup thread if you wanna talk R.O.B vs Fox

 

[Ghetto Blush]

So let me make this painfully clear so that I know for sure - boost->ffl fair->follow-up is air tight on shield like spacie's shffl nair->shine? If so I will not even try to be punishing it on any character and just take the follow-up on shield.

If so is this true for all follow-up attacks or just jab? How fast does the d-smash come out?

 

[Dandizzle]

Boost fair --> Jab has one frame to be safe from shield grabs but it the R.O.B probably won't space it right or be frame perfect every time and assuming you play Fox (tbh you have Roy as your main so I'd play him if your Roy is good) and shine can beat fair jab anyway. Any other move after boost fair would not be safe.

 

[Ghetto Blush]

It doesn't seem that hard to be frame perfect with that setup, though. I'll probably just not even risk the shield grab. I play Roy and Fox but I feel like Fox has a much easier time than Roy. Maybe that's just me, but the edge guarding potential R.O.B has on Roy is insane.

 

[Dandizzle]

Compared to Fox? Fox sits there for awhile in firefox makes it easy to throw a gyro down or hit him. You gotta consider Roy can just fsmash a boost fair and doesn't get chaingrabbed to 100%. I mean Fox verse R.O.B isn't terrible but Roy is even or a slight disadvantage. How does this R.O.B play anyway?

 

[Ghetto Blush]

Compared to Fox? Fox sits there for awhile in firefox makes it easy to throw a gyro down or hit him. You gotta consider Roy can just fsmash a boost fair and doesn't get chaingrabbed to 100%. I mean Fox verse R.O.B isn't terrible but Roy is even or a slight disadvantage. How does this R.O.B play anyway?

At least with Fox I can approach the ledge at different angles. With Roy, I don't have the luxury of recovering high/low, I only get to recover from below the stage at a predictable angle, in which R.O.B doesn't even have to time the gyro to edge guard me. F-smash on boost approaches is really risky because if my opponent just feints the approach and boosts the opposite direction and I whiff the f-smash, he can just use the third boost to attack me. The dude I play against usually just boosts at short hop height in neutral to try and bait out my moves until he can get a fair on my shield and then pressure me out of shield -> d-throw -> u-air -> edgeguard situation with gyro/laser/off-stage fairs.

 

[Dandizzle]

At least try it, R.O.B pretty much beats Fox everywhere besides the fact Fox can chip R.O.B's shield without even trying. We R.O.B players hate disjoint, and wavedash back --> fsmash or other punish can be good against boost approaches, and a sword makes juggles and stopping recovering from high easy, which is bad for R.O.B

 

[Ghetto Blush]

At least try it, R.O.B pretty much beats Fox everywhere besides the fact Fox can chip R.O.B's shield without even trying. We R.O.B players hate disjoint, and wavedash back --> fsmash or other punish can be good against boost approaches, and a sword makes juggles and stopping recovering from high easy, which is bad for R.O.B

Yeah that's understandable. I just historically have a better time with Fox, but honestly I think the reason I do poorly with Roy is match-up inexperience. Knowing how to DI certain setups really helps.