Question from a new Ganon main- Help appreciated.

[ManicMo]

1111111111

 

[King9999]

Welcome to Smashboards! Thanks for reading my guide!

A few specific difficulties I have been having:

1) Using tilt attacks seems to be beyond me, and I had to resort to programming my C stick to use tilt attacks. However, I find that incorporating forward tilt (the snap kick) into my gameplay is more difficult this way. Do you guys have any tips on how to use tilt attacks with the left stick and how I can avoid just throwing out a FSmash?

Unfortunately, using tilt attacks out of a dash are harder to execute because of the new mechanics. I myself never used the C stick for tilts until this game. The only thing I can suggest is to try changing the stick sensitivity in the control settings. Otherwise, you'll have to delay pressing the A button a bit so that you don't get a smash.

2) I know that recovery is supposed to be one of Ganondorf's weaknesses. On other such characters, I have noticed cool strategies to overcome this like chaining special moves together to get back to the stage. This doesn't seem possible with Ganondorf besides hoping you get very close to the stage and the steep angle on your Up Special goes high enough for you to grab the ledge. Advice? Or is this just how it is?

When you're recovering, you can use directional air dodge towards the stage before using your midair jump. Just make sure you're high enough so that the dodge's lag doesn't kill you. You can also use air Flame Choke, but it will put you in freefall afterwards. In some cases, you may be able to use air Wiz Foot since it lets you fall faster.

3) I have discovered through watching videos and reading posts that Nair and Bair and Ftilt are very useful attacks for Ganondorf. I try to use them as much as possible, but I was hoping someone could explain some more specific advice for how to utilize these three moves most effectively.

N-air is one of your best moves. It's fast, you can harass the opponent with it, and you can keep the opponent off stage with it. If you get hit, you can use n-air to stop the opponent's approach and recover. You can use n-air OOS too.

B-air is powerful, and will KO the opponent early. It's one of the most damaging b-airs in the game at 18.5% and is virtually unpunishable. Short hop b-air (using the new short hop mechanic) isn't that useful on grounded opponents, sadly. When you're using it on grounded opponents, you'll have to delay the attack a bit.

F-tilt (or side tilt) sends the opponent flying at a low angle, which makes it difficult for the opponent to recover off stage. At the stage edge, f-tilt becomes a KO tool. It's fairly fast too, making it useful in neutral. You can bait the opponent into approaching and then hit them with f-tilt afterwards. For example, after a short hop u-air, you can follow up with this move and catch the opponent who tries to punish your u-air (note: they can't). F-tilt is my go-to move after a flame choke because it's an easy KO if the opponent's damage is high enough.

4) With Ganondorf, I have noticed it's a lot more important to pay close attention to exactly what your opponent does in response to your actions, so you can use this information about them later. This seems to require a lot of game sense. This seems to be very important to utilize Ganon's mix-up game. Any common strategies or philosophies on this area would be very useful to me.

Flame Choke is a good way to figure out the opponent's patterns. After you land a few, pay attention to how the opponent techs and see if they keep using the same one. If they do, then figure out what your best punish is going to be. IMO Flame Choke is Ganon's most important tool because it sets up potential KOs if you make the right read.

5) Do you guys lose often? Is there a certain point where Ganondorf really clicked for you and you managed to start getting more balanced results when it comes to wins and losses?
**Note: I know that every match should be treated as a learning experience, but winning is a metric that indicates you are improving so I still want to delve into the issue.**

You have to lose before you get proficient with a character. But even when you're decent, you can still lose spectacularly. I feel like I'm at a point where my wins and losses are balanced, but that's only because I've only faced a small portion of the cast. Smash U is going to be more matchup-based, so there will be times when Ganon won't cut it.

6) Any specific twitch streamers or guides that I should watch would be appreciated

I actually want to know this myself. I know of M2K's buddy Vex, but I don't think he mains Ganon anymore. If Vermanubis streams, I would follow his channel for sure.

7) Zoner characters (especially the Links) do a good job keeping me out often. I try to be patient and move forward intelligently, but its tough. Do you have any advice for Ganon's tough matchups? Also, while I plan on choosing a secondary only after getting much better with Ganondorf, what suggestions do you guys have on what to look for in a secondary?

Try to choose a character that covers Ganon's weaknesses. For example, I have Dark Pit as a sub when I want to use someone with better recovery, and who can fight zoners. I also have Chrom, who moves much faster than Ganon and has disjoints as a regular part of their move set (only Ganon's smashes are disjoints). I'm thinking about picking up K Rool again as he's fun to use, and his recovery is pretty nice for a heavy.

8) Anything else you can think of!

Always go for Ganoncide when you have the chance and you have a stock lead.

 

[Gangly Spork]

Welcome to Smashboards! Thanks for reading my guide!



Unfortunately, using tilt attacks out of a dash are harder to execute because of the new mechanics. I myself never used the C stick for tilts until this game. The only thing I can suggest is to try changing the stick sensitivity in the control settings. Otherwise, you'll have to delay pressing the A button a bit so that you don't get a smash.



When you're recovering, you can use directional air dodge towards the stage before using your midair jump. Just make sure you're high enough so that the dodge's lag doesn't kill you. You can also use air Flame Choke, but it will put you in freefall afterwards. In some cases, you may be able to use air Wiz Foot since it lets you fall faster.

3) I have discovered through watching videos and reading posts that Nair and Bair and Ftilt are very useful attacks for Ganondorf. I try to use them as much as possible, but I was hoping someone could explain some more specific advice for how to utilize these three moves most effectively.

N-air is one of your best moves. It's fast, you can harass the opponent with it, and you can keep the opponent off stage with it. If you get hit, you can use n-air to stop the opponent's approach and recover. You can use n-air OOS too.

B-air is powerful, and will KO the opponent early. It's one of the most damaging b-airs in the game at 18.5% and is virtually unpunishable. Short hop b-air (using the new short hop mechanic) isn't that useful on grounded opponents, sadly. When you're using it on grounded opponents, you'll have to delay the attack a bit.

F-tilt (or side tilt) sends the opponent flying at a low angle, which makes it difficult for the opponent to recover off stage. At the stage edge, f-tilt becomes a KO tool. It's fairly fast too, making it useful in neutral. You can bait the opponent into approaching and then hit them with f-tilt afterwards. For example, after a short hop u-air, you can follow up with this move and catch the opponent who tries to punish your u-air (note: they can't). F-tilt is my go-to move after a flame choke because it's an easy KO if the opponent's damage is high enough.



Flame Choke is a good way to figure out the opponent's patterns. After you land a few, pay attention to how the opponent techs and see if they keep using the same one. If they do, then figure out what your best punish is going to be. IMO Flame Choke is Ganon's most important tool because it sets up potential KOs if you make the right read.



You have to lose before you get proficient with a character. But even when you're decent, you can still lose spectacularly. I feel like I'm at a point where my wins and losses are balanced, but that's only because I've only faced a small portion of the cast. Smash U is going to be more matchup-based, so there will be times when Ganon won't cut it.



I actually want to know this myself. I know of M2K's buddy Vex, but I don't think he mains Ganon anymore. If Vermanubis streams, I would follow his channel for sure.



Try to choose a character that covers Ganon's weaknesses. For example, I have Dark Pit as a sub when I want to use someone with better recovery, and who can fight zoners. I also have Chrom, who moves much faster than Ganon and has disjoints as a regular part of their move set (only Ganon's smashes are disjoints). I'm thinking about picking up K Rool again as he's fun to use, and his recovery is pretty nice for a heavy.



Always go for Ganoncide when you have the chance and you have a stock lead.

 

[Gangly Spork]

This was just stream of thought overview of ganon's strategy/neutral tips/techniques in more specific situations, sorry if I ramble at any points and that its not as concise and polished as King9999's post. If anything else really comes to mind I'll post it. I recommend using King9999's guide as a foundation while incorporating what I mention. Hope this helps a little

You have a fundamental understanding of how to ganon should be played.


His bread and butter are his NAir, Uair, Downtilt, jab, side tilt, sideB, and wizard kick with the occasional well placed Usmash or down smash. You want to generally keep pressure on your opponent being right in their face (just out of range from their attack). That position allows you to:
A: react to anything they do
B: punish them with a free sideB grab for doing nothing or just shielding
C: And most importantly force them to make a move (perfect time to see how your opponent reacts)
The space you want to keep between you and your opponent is obviously dependant on the opponent's character's.
1. Neutral standing range
2. speed (like rush grabs from C.Falcons)
3. Projectiles
It comes down to conciously paying attention to your spacing game when playing against every character until you've played against every character enough that when you move ganondorf you naturally move in a quick safe way. (Lot of practice)

When playing against ranged opponents your tactics should still be super aggressive but be 3 times as patient. It can be hella frustrating but remember ranged characters are light and will KO earlier, this will require the patience of a saint. While maintaining optimal spacing remember the words from the late great Patches O'houlihan "Dodge dive dip duck and dodge"
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NOTE: When I say play "super aggressive" I'm saying you should always be as close to your opponent as you can with enough space between you and your opponent so that they are unable to get a free hit. The the right spacing you should have enough time to force them to act and be able to react accordingly. I dont mean run in every single time blindly and sometimes trade blow for blow dont do that...like ever.
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*Maintain calm collected pressure with intentional precise spacing throughout the entire match. I've noticed so many ganons go up a stock and get cocky then get KO'd without landing a single hit. Other characters can get away with being a little more risky when they're up. Ganon is already a very high risk high reward character who is easily punished for mistakes, anymore risk than necessary ends up just being reckless against high level players.*

Utilize your short hop aerials. Pressing jump and A at the same time so that his attacks come out at the shortest possible height so he's not lingering in the air.

A good shield pressure tactic I like to throw out is a Nair while pulling just out of range going into a Downtilt and immediately into a jab. And if they were patient and non of those connected a sideB grab or wizard kick is usually good option afterwards.

His UpSmash I've found works pretty well when they're hanging on the ledge. By running in at the ledge then immediately back (spacing right so that the sword will connect to them on the ledge) charge the attack until they react. This covers their regular get up, roll, attack get up, and jump.

I rarely throw out his side smash. I reserve it specifically if their shield is already low, they are diagonally above him (it has more range there than expected), or for very hard reads.

Recovering from the ledge: get comfortable with throwing out moves after immediately after jumping. His sideB from the ledge is a great tool. People get wise to it very quickly so dont let them bait you into a trap with it.
-if you're hanging on the ledge and they run right up to the ledge try letting go and doing a UAir through the stage or a UpB through the stage.

Recovering to the ledge:
Ganon has a few more tricks up his sleeve then people think. If he's recovering from a high diagonal position (say top right corner) he's easily punished if all you do is fast fall and grab the ledge. I Like to get to the ledge asap. So I throw out a wizard kick down before i use his jump. Say your opponent tries to meet you off stage to punish in the air. Wizard kick down and sideB the ledge, now you've avoided being punished, they're above you and not in a particularly good position.

Fear is ganons biggest asset. Which is why I find that maintaining pressure on at all times is so important. This is where you will want to use wizard kick for burst speed to chase opponents that have been knocked across the stage. (Get used to the end lag and spacing on it so that you can use it second nature to chase while ending the move in a position that's unpunishable for you)


I don't claim to be the best Ganon player but I know how to play him well. In elite smash I generally win 7 or 8 games out of every 10 and have mained him since melee.

To be good with him and anyone really comes down to "conciousness online practice"
- try to win everytime. *obviously you wont, but actively trying to win every time is how you get better.
-Losing is the best possible learning tool ONLY if you recognize the reasons your opponent won.
- recognize why your moves didnt connect and if another one of his moves would have in that situation
- recognize why your moves did connect and how you created that opening
- If your brain is too burnt out from playing and you're not thinking while you're playing, take a break. At that point you will be conditioning bad habits.

Most important things:
1. Have fun with it
2. Be respectful to every online opponent
3. Appeciate those crazy matches that could have gone either way

 

[Gangly Spork]

1111111111

If you haven't already I highly recommend checking out "MGK's Ganondorf"'s YouTube channel.

I havnt really seen another ganondorf in smash ultimate quite a pretty as his and he has a few ti/combo vids