question about double jump canceling...

[Lumpy..]

so...
when i first found out about DJCing and FCing, i tried to implement them into my play style because they obviously seem useful...
but as i get better i've been FCing more and more, and i've been DJCing less and less...
i learned how to FC nairs and dairs pretty fluently (fast) and it helps wonders...
then recently i realized, i only DJC bairs and uairs... it would be more effective if i were to just FC those too...

the only time i use DJC effectively anymore, is to run away from the opponent and jump with the momentum you have from running away. then if they're chasing you (if not, no harm done), you can use ur midair jump backwards and bair right away and they'll run right into it more often than not...

my question is this: what are some other great uses/advantages for DJCing?

 

[kennypoopoo]

I think Float canceling is ultimately better I usually use DJC for what you explained and running of a platform and using the second jump to attack them when there on the platform. I usually use DJC Nairs more than anything but I also use it for throwing turnips as well. I'm sure there is a lot of other uses as well but it also changes your mobility in the air making you slightly less predictable ?

 

[Lumpy..]

yeah... that all works...
you say you use it for nairs?
how so?
i used to try it for pillaring, but it's faster if you FC it...
idk...

but the platform thing sounds smart, i never really thought of that...
i should try it...

 

[kennypoopoo]

Yeah the platform thing was posted by another smasher here on the peach boards but . I probably should'nt DJC my nairs its just a habit I got into when I first started peach. I don't do it all the time just randomly threw out the match and usually to lead into jabs. I should actually start float canceling more often.

Quick question for you though if you don't mind . You said that FC nair is quicker than DJC nair, did you mean the whole move is quicker as in the wind up time of the two jumps or the actual lag after the move ? I thought L-canceling and FC both got rid of 50% of lag?

 

[Lumpy..]

Yeah the platform thing was posted by another smasher here on the peach boards but . I probably should'nt DJC my nairs its just a habit I got into when I first started peach. I don't do it all the time just randomly threw out the match and usually to lead into jabs. I should actually start float canceling more often.

Quick question for you though if you don't mind . You said that FC nair is quicker than DJC nair, did you mean the whole move is quicker as in the wind up time of the two jumps or the actual lag after the move ? I thought L-canceling and FC both got rid of 50% of lag?

well... i meant it both ways kinda...
like...
i'm pretty sure you can actually start a FC'd nair a lil quicker than a DJC'd nair...
but mostly the lag...
(i don't know the frame data or anything, this is just what i've heard that sounds legit)
Lcanceling cuts the lag in half...
but float canceling replacing the landing animation of whatever attack you're doing with her normal (no attack) landing animation...
basically saying it's slightly faster than Lcanceling...

the best example i can think of is this:
if you DJC a fair into someone's shield, they can shield grab you... but if you FC, you can jab quick enough to slap them before they get the grab in...

also...
when i'm being combo'd or pressured hella by a fox/falco/marth player,
the fastest attack peach can do on the ground is jab.
so you can jab jab FCnair jab jab FCnair really fast and not get shield grabbed or anything...

EDIT: sorry for such a long post...
it looks like i'm trying to sound all good haha
i'm not good tho so maybe i'm not the best for giving advice or anything...

 

[kennypoopoo]

well... i meant it both ways kinda...
like...
i'm pretty sure you can actually start a FC'd nair a lil quicker than a DJC'd nair...
but mostly the lag...
(i don't know the frame data or anything, this is just what i've heard that sounds legit)
Lcanceling cuts the lag in half...
but float canceling replacing the landing animation of whatever attack you're doing with her normal (no attack) landing animation...
basically saying it's slightly faster than Lcanceling...

the best example i can think of is this:
if you DJC a fair into someone's shield, they can shield grab you... but if you FC, you can jab quick enough to slap them before they get the grab in...

also...
when i'm being combo'd or pressured hella by a fox/falco/marth player,
the fastest attack peach can do on the ground is jab.
so you can jab jab FCnair jab jab FCnair really fast and not get shield grabbed or anything...

EDIT: sorry for such a long post...
it looks like i'm trying to sound all good haha
i'm not good tho so maybe i'm not the best for giving advice or anything...

WOW thanks for all the info I always thought FC and just L-cancelling were the same i'm going to try to get myself FC'ing more I dont have difficulty doing it I just never thought it was that great but thanks for the examples. Next time my buddy Smash Chris is over I'll try out that combo. His Fox and Falco are really fast and annoying lol.

 

[Lumpy..]

no problem...
just know that this isn't all absolute truth, i just think it is...
so don't get mad if you find out what i said was wrong... haha
actually, if you do find out i was wrong, correct me, plz...

funny how we have our own lil thread to ourselves haha

 

[exarch]

A bit of frame data:
Lcancelling cuts the lag in half. The minimum lag from any aerial is 15 frames, and therefore the lcancelled lag minimum then is 7. Some of Peach's aerials have 7 frame lcancels, some have more.
However, Peach's FC cuts all lag on aerials to 4 frames (her normal landing lag.)

A minor correction:
Any character (except Samus probably) can shield grab peach in between her 1st and 2nd jabs, or in between the 2nd jab and the next nair. The only truly safe part of that is the nair->1st jab.

A few suggestions:
I don't use DJC much, except to get out of certain combos (especially against sheik) when I've been knocked forward close to the ground and the opponent is chasing for a followup. The DJC ->aerial is usually too fast for the opponent to react to and ends with them getting hit.

Also I find it useful for running off platforms and DJCing back to hit an opponent pursuing me under them.

The other last use I find is a WoP peach style consisting of fullhop bair and falling or DJC'ed bairs. It's highly effective against stupid mindless jigglypuff WoP spam, otherwise it's so stupid an idea I can't bring myself to do it in any other match. I mainly do it against puff when I'm bored.

 

[Lumpy..]

ooooooooh...
thanks...
that makes sense... i forgot to mention that against falcon i only do one jab
although i didn't know EVERY character ('cept samus and prolly yoshi) could shield grab you

i feel... smarter...

 

[kennypoopoo]

Here's a link to a thread in the yoshi boards that will give you another idea of what DJC'ing can be used for. The Post you want to read is by Exarch he said it can be applied to peach as well.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4552338#post4552338

 

[exarch]

Here's a link to a thread in the yoshi boards that will give you another idea of what DJC'ing can be used for. The Post you want to read is by Exarch he said it can be applied to peach as well.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4552338#post4552338

Technically, it's DJLing (Double Jump Landing), or at least that's how I remember seeing it referred to.

For peach it's "useful" for fsmashing or dsmashing out of shield. (She can JC upsmash out of shield like everyone else). However she can DJL out of shield instantly into a dsmash.

Theoretically:
Peach initiates a jump out of shield.
She is airborne on frame 6 and that exact frame is when you hit her second jump.
She would then land on frame 7, and on that same frame you could start her dsmash (there's no landing lag from DJL.)
Dsmash hits on its 5th frame, so all in all Peach should be able to Dsmash from shield in 11 frames, only 4 frames slower then a SG.

Of course, this is in a frame perfect world; it would probably take a little longer than that to actually do it.

 

[Lumpy..]

yeah... my friend who plays yoshi (very well) usually runs off of a platform and DJC's a nair towards the other person (if they're below the platform, obviously) and it seems to work pretty good...
since he's better than me, he prolly knows what he's doing lolz
i can see that coming in handy with peach too...