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Question about Damage and Tripping

WwwWario

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
637
Location
Norway
So, after over a year with Smash 4, there are still two things I've never really understood, and I haven't found any solid answer.

First off, there's something odd about the damage output I've never understood. Now and then, it deals either more or less damage than normal. I use Ganondorf as an example, since he's my main and I know his damage outputs (sorta, haha). For example, his Jab. It will do 7 - 10 % damage, depending on where on the attack you hit. Hit up close and it does 7%, hit at the peak of the move and it does 10%. But during a match today, it did 6% when I hit, and if I remember right, it did 4% not too long ago... why was that?

His Up Special, Dark Dive, now does 13.8% damage. The desimals doesn't show, but logically, if I use two Up Specials, it should leave them with 27.6 damage, right? Well, why does it then sometimes leave them with 14%? During another match today, the enemy just respawned after losing his stock, so he should then have 0.00%, right? Then I used Up B, and he was left with 14%, but shouldn't he be left with 13.8%?

Then there's Bowser Jr., where moves seem to do 1% more on him than on others... for example, Ganon's Jab can do 11% damage on him. Why is that?

Then to point number 2 - tripping. I know some moves have guaranteed tripping (like the final hitbox on Wario's dash attack), but other moves SOMETIMES make the oppoent trip (Like DK's Down Tilt). Is this random? Is it random tripping? Or does it happen at a specific %, or at a specific spot on the hitbox? If it's random, isn't that kind of... well, bad? I mean, the tripping can be a game changer, since one needed trip can be enough to land that final blow :\ So if it's random, isn't that a bit cheap?

Thanks! And sorry if these are logical questions I should know the answer to
 

FamilyTeam

This strength serves more than me alone.
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
2,332
Location
South America
NNID
MontanaCity
The explanation for the damage thing is probably Stale Moves. Explanation:
Also, I think that tripping after getting hit is random, yes, except for moves that guarantee it like :4falco:'s :GCD::GCB:.
 

Kaladin

Stormblessed
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
1,167
Location
Earth
NNID
Toobu_me
On tripping: Various moves have a trip chance attached to them. Falco's shine is something like 70%. Mario's dash attack is 100%. DK's dtilt is probably something like 30%. However, and move that deals very little or sakurai angle knock back has the potential to trip. For example, Pika's t-jolt will randomly trip what feels like 1 in 50 times. Furthermore, because sakurai, headshots have a higher trip chance.

Yeah.
 

Espyo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
103
Location
Portugal
The thing about Bowser Jr. is that hitting his head causes more damage than hitting the car. For the other things, a move could be causing more or less damage because of stale move negation (that's likely it), or decimals not being shown, and causing confusion (but you already know this). Tripping might have some factors that increase or decrease the chance, but for the most part, it's random.
 

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
Any attack that doesn't lift you off the ground has a base 10% chance to trip. Certain attacks have an increased trip% multiplier on top of that, as someone mentioned. It's not sakurai angle related though - that angle can trip at low percents because it doesn't lift off the ground at low KB values, but the angle scales up with higher knockback and stops being able to trip as a result pretty quickly.
 

Wintermelon43

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
2,767
So, after over a year with Smash 4, there are still two things I've never really understood, and I haven't found any solid answer.

First off, there's something odd about the damage output I've never understood. Now and then, it deals either more or less damage than normal. I use Ganondorf as an example, since he's my main and I know his damage outputs (sorta, haha). For example, his Jab. It will do 7 - 10 % damage, depending on where on the attack you hit. Hit up close and it does 7%, hit at the peak of the move and it does 10%. But during a match today, it did 6% when I hit, and if I remember right, it did 4% not too long ago... why was that?

His Up Special, Dark Dive, now does 13.8% damage. The desimals doesn't show, but logically, if I use two Up Specials, it should leave them with 27.6 damage, right? Well, why does it then sometimes leave them with 14%? During another match today, the enemy just respawned after losing his stock, so he should then have 0.00%, right? Then I used Up B, and he was left with 14%, but shouldn't he be left with 13.8%?

Then there's Bowser Jr., where moves seem to do 1% more on him than on others... for example, Ganon's Jab can do 11% damage on him. Why is that?

Then to point number 2 - tripping. I know some moves have guaranteed tripping (like the final hitbox on Wario's dash attack), but other moves SOMETIMES make the oppoent trip (Like DK's Down Tilt). Is this random? Is it random tripping? Or does it happen at a specific %, or at a specific spot on the hitbox? If it's random, isn't that kind of... well, bad? I mean, the tripping can be a game changer, since one needed trip can be enough to land that final blow :\ So if it's random, isn't that a bit cheap?

Thanks! And sorry if these are logical questions I should know the answer to
For the first thing, continus usege of a move results in it doing less damage. For it to do the normal amount of damage, you have to not use it a little bit.

Idk for the second thing

For the third thing, Bowser Jr.'s head takes more damage than usual, and vice versa for the car.

For the fourth, idk, but I believe complety random
 
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