Q for you lucky 64ers

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

ha it wasn't a trap. I was thinking about how melee's meatgame is still changing, and I was wordering if you 64 players think 64 could have more in it. I mean if it's been about 8 years for melee and new stuff still pops up shouldn't 64 have more.

And do any of you hate melee like melee hates brawl. I love 64 and melee, good ****

may make more scents

Originally Posted by INSANE CARZY GUY
ha it wasn't a trap. I was thinking about how melee's metagame is still changing, and I was wondering if you 64 players think 64 could have more in it. I mean if it's been about 8 years for melee and new stuff still pops up shouldn't 64 have more.

And do any of you hate melee like melee hates brawl. I love 64 and melee, good ****

 

[Superstar]

New stuff popping up for Melee? Like what?

At least as far as discovering ATs go, Melee has been stagnant. It's still a deep game, but I don't really think there's that much new significant stuff.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

ha it wasn't a trap. I was thinking about how melee's metagame is still changing, and I was wondering if you 64 players think 64 could have more in it. I mean if it's been about 8 years for melee and new stuff still pops up shouldn't 64 have more.

And do any of you hate melee like melee hates brawl. I love 64 and melee, good ****

I like all 3 smash games, probably like melee the least and smash 64 the most. I just don't play smash 64 that often anymore.

Smash 64 has many advanced techniques and at a higher level, it is quicker than brawl.

I like melee for the community and how it introduced me to competitive smash, smash 64 for how good I am in it and its balance, and brawl for its amount of people.

also, lol, I edited your quote since I was a Grammar Nazi here :D

 

[Dash_Fox]

Gameplay is always changing in every game play at a high level. New techniques and strategies are always coming out. New players pioneer different things all the time. Melee isn't special in this category, it's just another game with depth.

/ban 12 year olds.

 

[Daedatheus]

New players pioneer different things all the time.

Indeed, when I play good players online I often find they make use of a character in a way I've never seen before. There are lots of unique, but little, new things happening in this game still.

Still, the overall metagame hasn't moved really... of course such a change is always slow and imperceptible to those who are playing the game, so we need to compared playstyles today to those of 3-5 years ago or something.

In terms of technical depth, 64 CAN keep moving forward, however the ATs that aren't really used often are in that "third" zone:

Zone 1 - Easy to do, very useful. Most 64 ATs are here.

Zone 2 - Hard to do, very useful. Lots of Melee ATs would sit here, and one or two things from 64.

Zone 3 - Extremely hard to do requiring lots of practice and perfection, rarely useful. This is where some really crazy uses of characters in 64 lies, but it's almost not worth touching since they are so situational/rarely useful/useless. The kind of stuff House/JPleal10 might show in his TAS videos.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I am doing a ****lot of stuff with pichu's metagame and about every month or 4 you a new chain throw, good old ice climbers

keep up the good work 64ers

 

[Dash_Fox]

Indeed, when I play good players online I often find they make use of a character in a way I've never seen before. There are lots of unique, but little, new things happening in this game still.

Still, the overall metagame hasn't moved really... of course such a change is always slow and imperceptible to those who are playing the game, so we need to compared playstyles today to those of 3-5 years ago or something.

In terms of technical depth, 64 CAN keep moving forward, however the ATs that aren't really used often are in that "third" zone:

Zone 1 - Easy to do, very useful. Most 64 ATs are here.

Zone 2 - Hard to do, very useful. Lots of Melee ATs would sit here, and one or two things from 64.

Zone 3 - Extremely hard to do requiring lots of practice and perfection, rarely useful. This is where some really crazy uses of characters in 64 lies, but it's almost not worth touching since they are so situational/rarely useful/useless. The kind of stuff House/JPleal10 might show in his TAS videos.

No, I don't think that is how it is. You'll get it one day.

 

[Daedatheus]

No, I don't think that is how it is. You'll get it one day.

Meh. Explain please. I was just talking about purely technical stuff only in the last bit.

 

[Cryptic C62]

I dig what you're saying, Daed. Here's how I break it down:

Zone 1 (easy, useful): Rolling, teching, ledge jumping, z-cancelling, short hop

Zone 2 (hard, useful): DI, Jiggs teleport, fastfall uair, DJC, edge cancel

Zone 3 (too hard to be useful): Yoshi parry, House's drop cancelling, Link's descending Up+B

Edit: That's just for Smash64; I don't play Melee.

 

[Daedatheus]

Zone 2 (hard, useful): DI, Jiggs teleport, fastfall uair, DJC, edge cancel

Throw in fake ledge jump, dash pivot edgehog, and shine cancel

 

[Dash_Fox]

Meh. Explain please. I was just talking about purely technical stuff only in the last bit.

Can't explain, you just have to feel it. Doing any technique doesn't make you a good player it's how you apply it to the real challenge. Being technically fast and knowledgeable is the first step in the great journey to be a powerful opponent. If you are good you should be able to do nearly everything most of the time on command (I say most of the time because everyone will mess up sometimes). Strategy comes in next and you learn strategy by playing against people. Strategy will always evolve.

 

[Daedatheus]

Can't explain, you just have to feel it. Doing any technique doesn't make you a good player it's how you apply it to the real challenge.

I know that. I separated that part of the game when I broke that stuff down, listing strictly the technical side of things. I realize the game is not about just tech stuff or certain techniques.

But yeah, solid points.

 

[Fireblaster]

Throw in fake ledge jump, dash pivot edgehog, and shine cancel

What? dont underestimate the shine cancel.

 

[SpongeBathBill]

What? dont underestimate the shine cancel.

Oh no worries he wasn't. It was in the "hard but useful" category. Cause it's useful, was the idea.

 

[Daedatheus]

Oh no worries he wasn't. It was in the "hard but useful" category. Cause it's useful, was the idea.

Exactly. It's in the "zone 2". Ever since I learned to do it consistently it has come in handy, I get that.

Everyone is misunderstanding my posts

 

[Cryptic C62]

Zone 1 (easy, useful): Rolling, teching, ledge jumping, z-cancelling, short hop, edge hog, Mario/Luigi tornado recovery

Zone 2 (hard, useful): DI, Jiggs teleport, fastfall uair, DJC, edge cancel, shine cancel, pivot edge hog, fake ledge jump

Zone 3 (too hard to be useful): Yoshi parry, House's drop cancelling, Link's descending Up+B, Link's bomb recovery

What exactly is a fake ledge jump?

 

[Daedatheus]

What exactly is a fake ledge jump?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEHfk71_HO0

It's very possible. How useful it is I don't know, I've never tried to implement it other than fooling around in training mode.

Zone 3 (too hard to be useful): Yoshi parry, House's drop cancelling, Link's descending Up+B, Link's bomb recovery

Why does everyone think Link's bomb recovery is hard?!? I can safely agree that it's hardly ever useful, but hard to perform? No.

 

[Cryptic C62]

Ah, yes, I remember the fake ledge jump.

As for Link's bomb recovery, if I remember it correctly, in order for it to actually boost Link's recovery (ie, allow him to recover farther than just Up+B alone), it requires massive DI towards the stage. Someone (House, Blaze, Antd) made a video demonstrating this.

 

[Daedatheus]

As for Link's bomb recovery, if I remember it correctly, in order for it to actually boost Link's recovery (ie, allow him to recover farther than just Up+B alone), it requires massive DI towards the stage. Someone (House, Blaze, Antd) made a video demonstrating this.

Ah I know what you're talking about. But it does actually give him an extra boost that allows him to go farther than just jumping and up+b-ing. With that crazy TAS DI it would be waaaay more useful, but it does actually help even if you're not an impossible DI robot.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I am doing a ****lot of stuff with pichu's metagame and about every month or 4 you a new chain throw, good old ice climbers

...

.....


You're a fu**ing idiot. For your sake I hope you're trolling here.

 

[killa k]

thunders combo (shine jab) is like... zone 3.

 

[Fireblaster]

thunders combo (shine jab) is like... zone 3.

That seems more like zone 2 (meaning you shine and foxtrot once and they miss the tech and you jab to stand them up, which is more like what a ssb64 thunder's combo would be). Shine jabs would be zone 3.

 

[alcoady]

SSB64 is probably the best game of the series.
melee is a close second
and brawl being the last (although still an awesome game(i'm no h8r))

the only thing melee/brawl has over 64 is char/stage roster.

Z-canceling was so great in 64 because anyone could 0-death anyone, making the tier list a little less sparse.

melee was great because of all the chars, stages, and L-canceling but the tier was kinda rough (i.e. marth > kirby)

and brawl has a boat load of chars/stages/single player shiz, which is awesome, but lacks in balance. i mean...i chaingrab is pretty broken fox v falco (melee) but not as broken as it is in brawl just because every char is nerfed so bad, it makes the broken things (ddd,falco chaingrabs, MK bs) that much more broken...

64 is the greatest hands down. U-tilt --> death with every char!
balance son!!!