Punishing Rolls?

[X-ian]

I've seen in my improving group of friends rolls being used in what I believe is excess. I've cast away this notion as I've seen how effective being ablefooted and using rolls at the correct time is, although even with this advantage, I can't seem to catch them on rolls despite how predictable they are.

Although I space for poor rolling into SB (Shield Breaker) and FSmash (Forward Smash), I can't really set up a situation of this nature on that much of a whim, especially if they have a projectile move or already rolled into it. When I approach and they roll behind, I am able to read the rolls, however when I start the FSmash on them, it ends up being too quick as the fast time the attack is active and the active frames of the roll keep them safe. Of course, a quick punish would be launched onto me.

I'm supposing rolls in their nature are supposed to keep me away anyway, but the fact I'm missing the time they're going to be vulnerable when I'm able to do a smash or SB leaves me wishing for more. Even if I try to adjust for the fact I'm firing out too fast, I end up being too slow on the punish and they're already on a second roll away from me.

I suppose one could go for dash attacks or grabs but I seem to whiff either from the distance being too far or being too slow allowing them for a second roll. Then again, I could just roll dance with them, although that doesn't seem very effective.

How do you suppose one goes about punishing continuous, poor, or readable rolls with Marth's moveset? Moves with long active attack times like Thoron seem to work out, however Marth's moveset seems to be of quick strikes with considerable commitment. Maybe I could get some suggestions based on descriptions of my experiences?

tl;dr
I'd really like to know what other Marthymarth players use to punish continuous, poor, or readable rolls.

 

[Moydow]

If there is a pattern to their rolling and you can predict where they're going to roll to, attack where they're rolling to, instead of where they're rolling from. If your timing is right, your attack should become active just as their invulnerability ends. Or there's your down smash, which strikes both sides of Marth, but leaves you quite vulnerable if whiffed.

 

[X-ian]

If there is a pattern to their rolling and you can predict where they're going to roll to, attack where they're rolling to, instead of where they're rolling from. If your timing is right, your attack should become active just as their invulnerability ends.

I mean, I do turn my FSmash around to attack where they're rolling to (behind me) but I seem to be either too early or too late on the attack. Oh, the tip about attacking where they're rolling to has helped me more easily visualize where to focus my attacks if I do see the pattern in the rolls though. Thanks.

Or there's your down smash, which strikes both sides of Marth, but leaves you quite vulnerable if whiffed.

Of course. ^^ However, I find it can miss if used too early while their invulnerability period in still in effect or whiff if the roll is far enough. Of course, as you said, it can lead to easy punishes. I guess I should use it more often then and see how it works out.

Could I ask what approach/move do you use to catch people on their vulnerable period? Do you walk up and use a FTilt or try to FAir the char?

 

[EternalFlame]

Getting use to the timing will be the first task dude, there's no getting around that xD But FSmash and SB are incredibly risky to go for in terms of punishing unless you read them and get the timing down. What I usually do is throw the attack on where they're going to be about halfway through their roll animation. Keep in mind I'm also keeping in mind my reaction time into the calculation, so I compensate for reading too quickly or too late by doing so.

What I'd recommend for punishing rolls (besides the FSmash, which is a good option), is your DB (Dancing Blades). For a move that has commitment to it, you have the second to fourth swing to catch them afterwards and the active hitbox is rather forgiving for what you're trying to do - which is punish rolls. I almost always go for the DB when I see roll spam, since I can go into my DB setup to get them into more setups and rack up the damage xD

If you know how to do the Pivot grab or the Dash cancel shield grab, those two options are great to catch them as they're busy rolling away. I use to roll tons back when I started Smash 4, but since being punished repeatedly for it via grabs, I've learned not do rely on it anymore. Again, throw your attacks where you know they will finish, and compensate for how your reaction time works.

Hope this helps dude

 

[X-ian]

I guess I'll have to try DB out as well. Now that I think about it, it keeps one safe if they decide to attack out of roll so that seems optimal for the people I'm playing. ^^ I'll be sure try those other strats as well.

Thanks for the response. C:

 

[EternalFlame]

I guess I'll have to try DB out as well. Now that I think about it, it keeps one safe if they decide to attack out of roll so that seems optimal for the people I'm playing. ^^ I'll be sure try those other strats as well.

Thanks for the response. C:

No problem dude xD Just to be fair, I don't land those pivot grabs myself cus I can't do it properly, but I know they're part of the tools you have for punishing rolls.

Also just noticed the message count, so welcome to the forum xD hope you enjoy your stay