PsiM As A KO Move

[GofG]

Some of you might recall I was extremely skeptical of the Psi Magnet's KO potential a week or so ago. I have since realized that it will kill anyone at 125%. Granted, the stick, upsmash, etc, will kill before that, but I constantly find myself getting my opponent up to 125-150% before I get the KO. Especially against Foxy, who is, after all, an Ike main.

So I've become interested in the fastest way to get the hitbox to hit. I'm talking frame-wise. What is the fastest way to get the hitbox to come out? I've been shorthopping then SMASHING down on my b-stick. That seems to work for me. Does shorthopping even increase the speed? Decrease the number of frames? Decrease the lag in any way? Am I wasting my time?

Help me, guys.

 

[MTFFFG]

wow GofG is asking for help. that doesn't happen often so i need to get ready to post now 'breathes heavily'

okay here it goes. on a normal weighted character the psi magnet kills in the middle of fd at around 120-135% damage. the short hop into bsticked psimagnet move is good but it is easily dodged. I never use that attack when fighting an opponent with that much damage. your aerial attacks can also kill at those percents. there is minor lag if you do either jump.

from what i have researched into the short hop into psi magnet, i can tell that the speed isn't too fast nor is it too slow. It takes probably the same amount of frames as your fair. short hopping is faster than a normal jump

the only application i can use from this is if the opponent is slow or large or a combination of the two. It is easier to hit them with the hitbox. also if your opponent is chasing you, you can short hop auto rar into a forward psi magnet slide running into them. the only way i think to really hit them with the attack is if you surprise them in an unorthodox situation like when you are edgeguarding. when they try to grab the edge you can hop off and psi magnet them away.

hope this helps and i didn't really mean that first thing about you never asking for help

 

[GofG]

Your signature offends me. Lucas's hairstyle is up there with people like Elvis and Hillary Clinton in terms of awesomeness.

Also, I've found that my aerials do not in fact kill at those percentages. Not an Ike, at least. PsiM does.

I've found that its easier to hit with this attack than the stick, simply because it comes out faster. I just need to help with the accuracy.

I obviously didn't phrase my original question very well: Is performing a PsiM on the ground faster than shorthopping it?

 

[Batteries]

I've found that its easier to hit with this attack than the stick, simply because it comes out faster. I just need to help with the accuracy.

Accuracy isn't too difficult with this. What I do is shield and wait for my opponents, and when they come in for the grabs (especially while shielding) down dodge this and punish the lag at the end of the grab because of the lunge. I warn you, it won't always be the center of the hitbox, and smarter players may expect a roll, or something so they'll do something completely different but I can guarantee you'll get at least a couple kills out of this.

Another technique is use the PsiM pull and come flying at them with unexpected speed. All you need to do then is work on the timing for hitting them with PsiM.

 

[TechnoMonster]

At that point can't you just f-tilt or f-air and PKT gimp Ike?

 

[Levitas]

magnet kills easier. It's the new sheik fair, with a touch less knockback initially, and is a bit slower.

 

[MTFFFG]

i'm sorry for my sig. i didn't mean it to offend you. i will change it as soon as i can figure out a new sig to put up. in the mean time, after hearing your real question i fully understand my upcoming answer. batteries is right when waiting for opponent to attack but it is easier to just shield grab or even do one of his tilts. psi magnet's hitbox is right in the center and that is sometimes harder to get when you're vrsing smarter opponents. i can see getting a kill by surprise with it but spamming it on them will be punished later on.

i am used to using my stick when hitting them up close but if the psi magnet is faster than it, i will change.

but on to the real matter at hand. i disagree with you about hillary and elvis. lucas's hairstyle doesn't agree with them. it's more like the fonz, yeah the fonz.

 

[Trozz]

To get a really fast tap of Magnet zappage, bind the c-stick to B (which almost all Lucas mains do already) and tap c-down. It casts quickly and has a decent sized hit box. Comes out much faster than the stick with only slightly less knockback (and much less damage).

 

[Jihnsius]

The only way I apply this instead of other attacks is if I'm in shield and they're behind me. Short hop backwards and (holding back) B-Stick down. It's faster than any other method of retaliation. I think a short hop nair to forward tilt would work as well so long as you land past them as to not hit with the last hitbox of the nair, but it's a bit of a nuisance to time so they can't shield it. I'd imagine short hopping it out of a shield for a forward retaliation would also be useful instead of grabbing.

 

[Mr.E]

I doubt it's any quicker in the air, but a SHFF Magnet does have a wavedash-esque slide that could work as a surprise approach on rare occasion? Range is probably too short to use more than rarely, other than as an alternate out-of-shield attack as already mentioned. Wouldn't leave you as open as a missed grab, either.

 

[GofG]

I'm getting a lot of feedback that says that this move isn't as useful as I think it is, either that it's punishable or that it doesn't have enough range or that it doesn't KO at a high enough percentage.



I'd advise you guys to look at Levitas's post. I had not thought of drawing that parallel, but its an excellent example. Sheik builds up damage more and more, but then at a high % she finds herself lacking a KO move. Except for the fair.



Obviously, Lucas has several KO moves, but I've found that, say, on an opponent's last stock, when they're playing incredibly defensively, its very hard to land a stick. The Dsmash is easier when they're spamming rolldodge, I guess, but even that still won't hit often.



I'm attracted to the psi magnet (oh wow, pun) because of its weird hitbox that they won't see coming, and because its knockbackercentage ratio is insanely high. That, and, it looks very, very pro to get a kill with it.



So so far I've gotten that the SHFF PsiM takes the same number of frames for the hitbox to come out as doing it on the ground. This doesn't make any sense to me, as it would mean that the SH does in fact speed up the attack, just not enough to cancel out the few frames lost to starting the jump. It would seem to me like SHing either wouldn't speed it up at all (why would it?) or it would bring out the hitbox as soon as you hit the ground, in effect, canceling the PsiM.



I can't test right now, which is why I'm asking you guys.

 

[Jihnsius]

Fox and Falco's shine both come out faster if you shorthop. No good reasoning, but it works.

 

[Levitas]

um, do the fox/falco shine's come out on frame 1 like they did in melee? If the answer is yes, then there's no possible way that SH Shine comes out faster than shine.

 

[Jihnsius]

No, they don't. Go read up on the threads. I'm sure there's a few B moves that function the same way, as most of them have different aerial properties than grounded.

 

[napZzz]

umm his f tilt is way faster and has just as much range. His aerials should kill at those percents but if they dont you should be able to jump out and fair the opponent when they are off the edge most of the time depending on who it is. PSI magnet is just too slow and predictable, it most likely just get you killed

 

[CFaLC]

GofG, PsiM is a DECENT KO move...I wouldn't rely on it, though. The best and really only time (except at high percentages) it will KO is when you're at the very end of a stage and use it on someone. Other than that, it's very good for knocking people OFF the ledge and forcing them to recover, in which case you can gimp their recovery with PKT. I do like When someone dodges toward me and I can tap down on the C-stick and it'll PsiM them. That's usually when I get use out of it. I've tried other methods...But it would seem that PsiM works best as a surprise attack when their defense are down and they are close to you and did not hit you. Using it as a completely offensive attack would result in you getting hit most likely.

My favorite use of it is still absorbing energy projectiles. I had one match where I literally absorbed a good 150-200% health from just projectiles...Major mistake on their part, oh well.

 

[TechnoMonster]

I guess I'll work on this with the Vegas guys and see what I come up with.

Could you B-stick PKF behind them and do it real fast lol?

Ed - Lolz fast test results.

• The hit box on this thing is tiny, it's about the same size as Jiggly's rest, but it's disjointed from you. Just imagine you're holding a squirming puff and the puff has to rest them lol, or in other words, they have to be touching the white part of the bubble.
• SH PKM is the same speed as grounded PKM.
• Dashing SH PKM has great range and you can extend it a touch by holding B for a second. It's a bit like a short WD to f-tilt.
• The attack could be classified as med startup with low lag, whereas a F-air or F-tilt would be med-fast with medium lag, and a back air would be a slow startup with high lag.
• When you SH it, it's much faster than doing an aerial in terms of landing because it cancels your jump.

But the real neat part about this is that you can turn around with it midair and do it which is awesome as hell, because your backair is slow and laggy. I didn't look into any b-sticking tricks, but with the analog stick, simply do a down diagonal as far in the direction that you want to do the PKM as you can without a PK fire and press B (close to the 5:00 and 7:00 grooves). With this you can SH PKM out of shield and get a jump from one end of a battlefield platform to another on the attack, only slightly less range than a B-air with a faster startup, less lag, and a good trajectory as well.

 

[napZzz]

GofG, PsiM is a DECENT KO move...I wouldn't rely on it, though. The best and really only time (except at high percentages) it will KO is when you're at the very end of a stage and use it on someone. Other than that, it's very good for knocking people OFF the ledge and forcing them to recover, in which case you can gimp their recovery with PKT. I do like When someone dodges toward me and I can tap down on the C-stick and it'll PsiM them. That's usually when I get use out of it. I've tried other methods...But it would seem that PsiM works best as a surprise attack when their defense are down and they are close to you and did not hit you. Using it as a completely offensive attack would result in you getting hit most likely.

At a higher percentage his f-tilt and fair come out faster and have just as much knockback, if not a kill. Missing with it is asking to die

 

[GofG]

NaPPy, that is simply not true. Go look at the knockback thread.

 

[TechnoMonster]

Lol you guys are quick, see my post above it has toasty edits.

 

[Levitas]

lol, I thought Toasty edited your post somehow due to how you said that. I'm gonna see if the reverse magnet out of shield has potential.

 

[TechnoMonster]

Ok, so I've been kind of working at my psi M game; basically now that I know it can be used I use it occasionally, so I'm bumping this sucker.

First of all it's **** hard to hit with, but still good to have in your arsenal. Problem is that it's a little on the slow side, and it doesn't have range on any reasonably good attack, and nothing combos into it. Obviously you can use it at high percent to punish laggy moves, like against Ike. You can also use it to try to punish cross-ups out of shield (when they land right behind you with a -laggy- aerial, for instance Snake), but most of the time a N-air or B-air will hit or miss with the same accuracy and they are better choices. You can also use it against close ranged projectile users to simply go right through their projectile and hit them, and this is useful on Pikachu's Thunder, recovering amazing damage and hitting them at the same time.

But I think the biggest use of this is altering your movement patterns without wasting your jumps or leaving floating in the sky. If you press Down B and any direction immediately, you get a little wave bounce in that direction. I think you can do the same thing with the B-stick as well, but I think it's just easier to do it with B. The bounce has two effects: Shifts your momentum in a direction, and cancels your jump.

This opens up a lot of movement options. For instance, you can full-hop a U-air, continue to DI forward, then use your second jump and Magnet Bounce back to the top platform if you realize that you're heading into trouble, while keeping your same facing. It's also a fast way to avoid an attack and give you a little frame advantage; for instance, Wolf likes to F-smash and dash attack a lot; both have a fairly fixed range, but have some lag as well, so if you find yourself poorly spaced, just bounce back. It's better than rolling because you'll be set up to react to their next attack much faster, but you can still be hit out of it.

It's not something I use every chance I get because it's not 100% safe, but it is a great mixup.