Pros and Cons of Sm4sh Air Dodging System

[Ravengeance]

Ok so I was having a discussion with a friend about air dodging. I kind of come more from melee he from brawl so we have very different views on air dodging. He's played a lot of Smash 4 where as I haven't played that much. But I dislike the ability to air dodge several times in the air.

But I'm hoping someone can give me very specific details as to how it works in Smash 4. I know in Melee if you air dodged actually in the air you were in free fall and easily punished. In Brawl if I'm not mistaken you could air dodge out of hitstun but the air dodge was in place and you could only do it once in the air.
In Smash 4 you get extra landing lag by air dodging right? If you perform an aerial after air dodging do you then get normal landing lag or do you still get extra landing lag from air dodging.

It just seems if a player is high up in the air or recovering from the sides they can almost spam air dodge.
I know you can bait out air dodges and then punish them right after air dodging. But compared to most Smash 4 moves you seem to be able to air dodge again fairly quickly. Like I know as sheik if you air dodge my fair I can quick jump and nair but can slower characters punish air dodges in the air in similar fashion or do they simply have to bait out the air dodge and throw out hitboxes?

Other technical questions I have are does air dodging affect your moment(you get smashed to the side does air dodging slow your momentum from potentially being hit into a blast zone)? Do multiple air dodges have a different landing lag then just one air dodge? How much is the actual increased landing lag? Is there a means to cancel air dodge landing lag such as performing a move(I'm pretty sure falling back to the ledge to grab ledge would negate any landing lag from an air dodge)?

Thanks in advance. I genuinely want to understand the game better. Sorry if this has been answered before but couldn't find a forum, technical explanation of all of it.

 

[Xermo]

In Brawl if I'm not mistaken you could air dodge out of hitstun but the air dodge was in place and you could only do it once in the air.

No, you had multiple airdodges in brawl. It works relatively the same as in smash 4 except you didn't suffer landing lag from it and they were less spamable.

Performing an aerial after dodging gives you regular aerial landing lag instead of air dodge landing lag.

All characters punish air dodging the same. You don't need a long lasting hitbox to cover it like nair, just proper execution.

No it doesn't affect momentum. It did in brawl since hitstun could be cancelled which gave you control of your aerial movement again, but not in 4 since it can only be done post-hitstun.

Multiple air dodges have the same amount of landing lag as one air dodge.

It's 21 frames of landing lag from an air dodge.

And again, yes, you can cancel regular air dodge landing lag by replacing it with aerial landing lag, or in some cases using an aerial that autocancels. Falling back to the ledge, assuming you just jumped from it, works except you're now vulnerable to attack, as regrabbing the ledge negates ledge invincibility.

 

[Ravengeance]

Many thanks for the clarification. The air Dodge does definitely feel spammable, especially online since my connection isn't great. I guess I just wish there was more of a delay between air dodges but as far as smash 4 "problems" go it is far from being the most detrimental.

 

[Lavani]

No it doesn't affect momentum. It did in brawl since hitstun could be cancelled which gave you control of your aerial movement again, but not in 4 since it can only be done post-hitstun.

Air dodging can actually be done during hitstun in this game, it just happens later than in Brawl. It holds steady at 40 frames for a certain range of knockback (seemingly ~100-145KB), but starts ramping up again after that. You don't get control over your movement any earlier for it though, so it isn't beneficial for surviving lethal knockback.

 

[jcx]

Smash 4's airdodges are a step up from Brawl's, but I personally prefer Melee's due to the fact that it makes combos easier and more prevalent, although most people would only favor Melee airdodging because of wavedashing

 

[Ravengeance]

Smash 4's airdodges are a step up from Brawl's, but I personally prefer Melee's due to the fact that it makes combos easier and more prevalent, although most people would only favor Melee airdodging because of wavedashing

Yeah I totally agree with you. But even without wavedashing I still prefer Melee's air dodge bc of that little bit of mix up to recover on stage. I would love to see a Melee air dodge implemented but like you can only do it once in the air and landing refreshes it. I think that would be interesting. Might work, might not but would love to try something like that.
I actually dusted off my brawl disc and tried a couple bot matches to see how the air dodging was and I forgot how bad brawl was and after seeing brawl air dodge mechanics firsthand again sm4sh doesn't seem so bad with air dodging.

 

[mousethephoenix]

The best part about the airdodges in sm4sh is the "b8 w8 celebr8"