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Proposition: Replace the Labels "Casual/Competitive" with a Simple Rating System

Downdraft

Smash Ace
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The terms "casual" and "competitive" are divisive and vague. All players cannot be reduced to two oversimplified, poorly defined categories, so I propose that we expand those terms into a more clearly defined rating system that will allow us to argue certain matters more maturely and clearly.

It's not possible to create terms or scales that encompass all players precisely; some players may fall between two ratings.
I'd appreciate community input on strengthening these ratings and making them more precise.
Players of a higher rating can compete with or defeat most players of equal or lower levels.

Rating System
0 would represent players that have negligible experience in the game; first-timers, i.e. new players would be rated a 0. These players haven't had the experience or practice to master a game's tech or its characters, especially if they're new to the series as a whole. All the games play differently, so whenever someone plays a new Smash Bros game or a mod, most of the time they'll have a low rating. Some players catch on very quickly, so they may be underrated, but that'll change quickly if they make themselves known to the Smash community via word-of-mouth, YouTube, twitch, etc.

1 would represent low level players. What is a low level player? I'll define low level players as those that ignore technical skill, advance techniques, mind games, spacing, etc., i.e. abilities that are required to become great and win major tournaments. Low level players may be new players that aren't interested in attending tournaments or becoming very good at the game. Players rated 0-2 represent most of the Smash Bros series' sales. Many low level players play just for fun. To low level players, Smash Bros is a party game; they may enjoy items and enable stages that would be banned in a tournament setting.

2 would represent mid-low level players
. These players have some grasp of the fundamentals and have made some effort to become good at the game. There is still tons of room for improvement. Mid-low level players play the game at a deeper level than low level players, but they are still lacking in character development, tech skill, etc. Some mid-low level players make the effort to jump to the next level, indicating that they're interested in tournaments and competing against skilled players.

3 would represent middle or medium level players.
I consider myself to be in the interval (2, 3]. Medium level players have a few strong suits, but lack of ability or weaknesses in other areas prevent them from competing against higher level players and professionals. I'll use myself as an example. I have low tech skill in Project M; I first started playing this game in Winter 2013, so I'm not a newcomer. I've watched many tournament videos, browse these forums, and play with other players that are medium or mid-high level. I'm aware of the tech, advanced techniques, areas where I could improve, etc. I've got knowledge, but I haven't applied it and struggle against players with greater character mastery, tech skill, fundamentals, etc. I imagine that few players make it beyond medium level play. Some medium level players attend tournaments.

4 would represent mid-high level players.
These players are good, yet professional players may whip them. Parts of mid-high level player's game is high-level; the rest is not. The elements of their game/understanding/skill that aren't high level is what prevents them from becoming a household name in the Smash community. Mid-high level players can place well in smaller tournaments and even win them. These players compete in a handful of tournaments and have a solid working knowledge of a game's mechanics, their character, tech, etc. A few of these players go on to become players that we're all familiar with.

5 would represent high level players, which includes all professionals.
Professional players such as M2K, Mango, Armada, Ally, etc. are the best of the best. On the lower end of high level players, are the players that have nearly mastered the game. High level players are experts at their character and the game. They've mastered the fundamentals and have little issue performing advanced techniques. Their tech skill is superb. Many high level players are well known in the Smash community and win most of the major tournaments. High level players are some of the best at their characters. Some high level players' grasp of the game is so great that they can play most of the cast against lower level players and win. Whether they main 1 character or 5, the play of high level players can inspire us all. They lead the way in the development of the Smash Bros games' metagames. Their performances carry significant weight in the controversial, tier lists.

This post is long, and I'd like to strengthen these ratings.
If they could be condensed without losing their overall meaning, that'd be great.
 

Moon Monkey

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So instead of calling people casuals, you suggest calling them 1's and 2's?

Eh, I'm not entirely sure this will catch on. In most cases, people who associate themselves as casuals and/or competitive would also explain in what way they are just to clarify.

Breaking the 2 broad categories into 5 smaller ones would just complicate things IMO. Though I see what you are trying to achieve.
 
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Raijinken

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I like it in theory (perhaps because I've called myself a high-level casual for a long time, which here is the second best category), but it would still feel like an arbitrary system that would just divide people more. A more well-defined arbitrary system, but still arbitrary. Divisions will exist regardless.

"You say you're a 4 but you don't even know ____!? What a scrub."

"Only 5-level players know enough to have an opinion, shut up."

Further case-in-point, I've played and won in local tournaments (not that NC has many), but scarcely bother with tech.
 
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Downdraft

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So instead of calling people casuals, you suggest calling them 1's and 2's?

Eh, I'm not entirely sure this will catch on. In most cases, people who associate themselves as casuals and/or competitive would also explain in what way they are just to clarify.

Breaking the 2 broad categories into 5 smaller ones would just complicate things IMO. Though I see what you are trying to achieve.
Players would be called rank (#) or the _ (level). What many consider to be a casual player, would be called a low or mid-low level player. Alternatively, they'd be referred to as rank 2 and below.
 

Farorae

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I think it would be weird to be calling people by numbers. And how would you know what number someone was? Would they state it, put it in their profile or something? I don't know it just seems like a weird way to refer to someone or someone's level of play. It's an interesting thought, but I personally don't see it working.
 

SmashBurner

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I don't know if numbers would be the best classifications, but the idea is great imo.

How to further this, idk. But casual and competitive might be too broad. I like and enjoy both styles of play so I don't get involved with disputes.

I'm sure there's others like that. Then maybe people who play no items but aren't as skilled as tournament players and possibly really good players that like items.

So the TC's idea could be a nice start to something bigger in the future.
 

STiCKYBULL3TZ

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Who's the one officiating these numbers? Does the player decide their number or the community who plays with them?

IMO we should just get rid of labels all together. Or just decipher the pros from everyone else
 

BADGRAPHICS

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This is a complicated solution to something that isn't really an issue.

However, I wouldn't say no to a new field in the profile where we can indicate our level of involvement. People come to these boards for a few reasons, so it might be cool to identify ourselves with tags like "Tournament organiser", "Competitive Melee Player" or "Hardcore Speculator".
 

Casey_Contra

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I think this is a cool idea, but I think rather than being tied to skill it might be better to tie it to interest/motivation. So a level 4 tournament player could actually be below a level 2 in terms of skill, but the level 2 person plays for fun and has no interest in tournaments.

It's like the Kinsey scale!

But yeah I agree that it would be hard to implement.
 

skstylez

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I hate the term casual/competitive. With smash 4, instead of saying "do you play casually or competitively" i'll say "do you play for fun or for glory?
 

Senario

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"Oh look a bronze 1 scrub. Youre so bad at dis game!"

Essentially the same concept and it doesnt exactly help the league community. People do what they want and honestly i have not seen many competitive players calling out ppl for being casual but have seen a lot of so called casual players attempting to rip competitive players and the community a new one. The hate is so real.
 

STiCKYBULL3TZ

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#HBC | Red Ryu

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I think just letting results speak for themselves should be enough for a ranking system.

If they don't enter tournaments then they aren't really competing are they?
 

Downdraft

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I think just letting results speak for themselves should be enough for a ranking system.

If they don't enter tournaments then they aren't really competing are they?
You're right. There just isn't a system or vocabulary that can clearly identify the type of player.
"For Fun" and "For Glory" wouldn't work because people who play the game "more seriously" might be lumped into the "For Fun" category because they're not good or relevant enough "for glory". Eh, I was really just looking for terms that were less insulting or vague that could describe a player's relation to the game. The results would speak for themselves in my rating system. Unless a player is sandbagging, then their abilities should show. If you put a sizable amount of players in a tournament setting and everyone plays close the best of their ability, then I imagine that it'd be clear where everyone fell.
 

Big-Cat

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It still isn't an issue unless you make it one. There's no point in segradating players other than by skill level. The results will speak for themselves as Red Ryu said.
 

dimensionsword64

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So basically, instead of having casual vs competitive debates, we'd have 3 vs 5 debates. :troll:
 

Pazzo.

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A rating system could be even more decisive.. do we really need more needless labels?
 

Sarki Soliloquy

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This is a complicated solution to something that isn't really an issue.

However, I wouldn't say no to a new field in the profile where we can indicate our level of involvement. People come to these boards for a few reasons, so it might be cool to identify ourselves with tags like "Tournament organiser", "Competitive Melee Player" or "Hardcore Speculator".
I think just letting results speak for themselves should be enough for a ranking system.

If they don't enter tournaments then they aren't really competing are they?
"Oh look a bronze 1 scrub. Youre so bad at dis game!"

Essentially the same concept and it doesnt exactly help the league community. People do what they want and honestly i have not seen many competitive players calling out ppl for being casual but have seen a lot of so called casual players attempting to rip competitive players and the community a new one. The hate is so real.
All of you get my kudos!

The scale given in the OP is almost like an overly complicated version of the points made in this video:


TL;DW

Level 1: Understanding Your Character (pick your main, understand their abilities, attributes, moves)
Level 2: Match-Up Knowledge (Understanding matchups, your main vs. the rest of the cast)
Level 3: Opponent Knowledge (Mindgames, knowing what your opponent is used to doing & adapting to it)


Ask yourself this: Why do you want to learn your fighting game of choice? Got that answer? Now find the best route to get to your goal!

Anyways, I don't think your proposed number scale would remedy the odious casual/competitive dichotomy. A number scale that divides players by skillsets may make said player's flaws more specific, but then again people will just prescribe a number onto them and would just ensue more arguments that they're bad over their playstyle.

More "artistically-applied" terms like casual and competitive are subjective to the point and are used as they are because most gamers are so aghast to the casual playstyle because they assume it means they don't take their hobby seriously. The same thought process is present is game development too, but that's another story.

I'll give you an example of how these terms really apply. I am a hardcore Animal Crossing player. That game is overall designed to be pretty relaxed and easy to pick up. That's just about the right type of mood I'd have to be in to play it. Once I'm in, I become really invested in my town that I commit so much time and effort raising my Bells, expanding the facets in my town, and collecting every possible item in the game. I play Animal Crossing in both casual and competitive moods. This would be no different in any other type of game, Smash included.
 
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Khao

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First off, change the name to Power Levels.

Then, If you build a device that goes over your eyes and can detect people's levels automatically just by looking at them, you got a deal.
 

Rocket Raccoon

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First off, change the name to Power Levels.

Then, If you build a device that goes over your eyes and can detect people's levels automatically just by looking at them, you got a deal.
ZeRo, what does the scouter say his power level?

IT'S OVER 6!
 

Xermo

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>be me
>smash bros. player
>go to first tourney
>local venue. smells like salt.
>see first opponent. 5/5 qt3.14
>makemymove.gif
>ask if she'd like to play
>"Sure, Anon! Who do you main?"
>Falcon because muh legacy
>she mains diddy
>we start on sv
>get 4 stocked
>"Don't worry, I'm sure it's just nerves."
>take her back to sv. feelin it this round
>she sd's on missed tech
>herewego
>tfw sd was intentional
>tfw she JV'd me
>tfw I was a 1
 
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ChikoLad

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Same reason people came up with them in the first place. They need to make themselves seem better than others.
And that's exactly the problem. Arbitrary labels. They have no true purpose, they are just a fake buff to one's self-esteem, and as a result, these labels mean entirely different things to different people.

I've always hated arbitrary labels like this. It isn't just within the Smash community. Even in the gamer community at large, with "casual" and "hardcore". These labels serve no logical purpose, they don't help anything, just create non-existent reasons for people to feel like they are better than others.

Identity labels in general are supposed to imply objectivity. For example, someone who is interested in the same sex being "gay". Their sexual preference is an indisputable fact and they know that, and there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it, and pretty much everyone understands the very clear and simple to describe definition of that label.

The problem with "competitive" and "casual" labels in the context of the Smash community is that they DON'T have an objective meaning. Everyone seems to have their own definition of the words. Technically, the dictionary definition of "competitive" can actually be applied to literally everyone who picks up a Smash game. Though at that point it's redundant to even use the label. At the end of the day, we all just like Smash. Just to different degrees, and it's less a part of some people's lives than others.

This site's banner states that it's the "Home of the Smash Community". Well if this is my home and y'all are supposed to be family, then I don't know what kinda family ye are, because I know good family members don't place arbitrary labels on other family members.
 

BADGRAPHICS

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And that's exactly the problem. Arbitrary labels. They have no true purpose, they are just a fake buff to one's self-esteem, and as a result, these labels mean entirely different things to different people.

I've always hated arbitrary labels like this. It isn't just within the Smash community. Even in the gamer community at large, with "casual" and "hardcore". These labels serve no logical purpose, they don't help anything, just create non-existent reasons for people to feel like they are better than others.

Identity labels in general are supposed to imply objectivity. For example, someone who is interested in the same sex being "gay". Their sexual preference is an indisputable fact and they know that, and there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it, and pretty much everyone understands the very clear and simple to describe definition of that label.

The problem with "competitive" and "casual" labels in the context of the Smash community is that they DON'T have an objective meaning. Everyone seems to have their own definition of the words. Technically, the dictionary definition of "competitive" can actually be applied to literally everyone who picks up a Smash game. Though at that point it's redundant to even use the label. At the end of the day, we all just like Smash. Just to different degrees, and it's less a part of some people's lives than others.

This site's banner states that it's the "Home of the Smash Community". Well if this is my home and y'all are supposed to be family, then I don't know what kinda family ye are, because I know good family members don't place arbitrary labels on other family members.
I play Smash Bros. for fun and glory. I'm a compasual.
 

mario123007

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And that's exactly the problem. Arbitrary labels. They have no true purpose, they are just a fake buff to one's self-esteem, and as a result, these labels mean entirely different things to different people.

I've always hated arbitrary labels like this. It isn't just within the Smash community. Even in the gamer community at large, with "casual" and "hardcore". These labels serve no logical purpose, they don't help anything, just create non-existent reasons for people to feel like they are better than others.

Identity labels in general are supposed to imply objectivity. For example, someone who is interested in the same sex being "gay". Their sexual preference is an indisputable fact and they know that, and there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it, and pretty much everyone understands the very clear and simple to describe definition of that label.

The problem with "competitive" and "casual" labels in the context of the Smash community is that they DON'T have an objective meaning. Everyone seems to have their own definition of the words. Technically, the dictionary definition of "competitive" can actually be applied to literally everyone who picks up a Smash game. Though at that point it's redundant to even use the label. At the end of the day, we all just like Smash. Just to different degrees, and it's less a part of some people's lives than others.

This site's banner states that it's the "Home of the Smash Community". Well if this is my home and y'all are supposed to be family, then I don't know what kinda family ye are, because I know good family members don't place arbitrary labels on other family members.
To be casual or competitive is up to you, you can just have fun with this game but you can also participate in tournaments to earn money.
 

DairunCates

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Lables exist for a reason.
Somewhat. They work for a very VERY basic categorization, but they fail as a common use term frequently because they miss a lot of nuance. A person can very much be a dedicated and highly technical player without being "competitive", and a player can be competitive and still be kinda garbage at the game or enjoying quite a bit of casual play. In a sense, the two terms don't even accurately portray the difference they think they do for more than half of the players out there.

In a sense, it's profiling. There are some times and places where it's a necessary tool, but if you rely on it as a go to solution, you're just relying on stereotypes instead of facts.
 

Luigi#1

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Lables exist for a reason.
So people can make them feel better about themselves for being good at a game.
Seriously, we can just stick with "I'm okay at this game" or "I'm great at this game" instead of "Filthy casuals, I'm the greatest competitive player in the world or ever."
 

Tristan_win

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Fact: The majority of people who claim to be a '3' will be 2's.
Fact: No one will ever need to claim to be 5 because others will do it for them.
Fact: It takes more then just 0-5 to rank the tiers of skill for smash.

There's also the fact that not all regions are created equal, NJ '3' could be consider a '4' in a place like North Dakota. This ranking system is silly.

Edit: My prefer method is this, "Have you won a rank worthy tournament that was advertised on smashboards?" If your answer is no then your not good.
 
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NoiseHERO

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Just say whether or not you're Basic or whether or not you're an individual.
 

HeavyLobster

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What's the point of this?
It's mostly so people like me who aren't particularly good and don't go to tournaments can feel better about ourselves by calling ourselves 2s because we can beat up on people who use Wiimotes and don't know what teching is.
 

greenluigiman2

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The big problem I have with the labels "casual" and "competitive" is that they imply that the words have opposite meanings, which is false.

I've never been to a tournament in my life and I don't often play against people outside of my household, but when I do play the game I play it to the best of my ability and I strive to get better. That doesn't fit the description of competitive or casual. I'm not necessarily competitive because I don't compete against other people too often, but I don't play the game casually whatsoever. I play Smash regularly and put in full effort.

The opposite of casual, as it relates to videogames, is "hardcore." The opposite of competitive, as it relates to video games, is simply noncompetitive. I am a hardcore, noncompetitive Smash player, not a casual. In fact, I'd say that fits the description of a lot of people on this site.
 

κomıc

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That's fine and all.

But I'm just going to label myself a "Video Game Enthusiast".

So, take that casuals and competitive players!

(I suggest the League of Legends ranking system. Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond and Challenger MASTER HAND).
 
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